Topswap build!

Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)
snowth1ef
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Topswap build!

Post by snowth1ef »

Well I had been planning on topswapping my bonneville for awhile, and while trying to find information for it noticed a lot of people like to shoot down people considering a topswap.... Sooooo decided to make a build post and give you guys some info on topswapping, why there is no issues with it and why its awesome. So here we go!

First of all there are 3 ways to have a supercharged motor in your currently NA car.

1. Swap an entire L67/L32 engine in.
Requires: entire L32/L67 engine, lots of time and work. still have low compression.

2. ZZP SSM90 half topswap
Requires: ZZP SSM90 L67 intake manifold with injector holes machined in them, custom ZZP ssm90 fuel rails, Gen 3 eaton m90, zzp ssm90 pulley for single belt setup. 33lb injectors from L67 preferred for proper fueling

Also assorted gaskets and bolts

3. Full topswapp (what I did, with option 1, dual belt setup to come later when I get below a 3.4 in pulley)
L67 cylinder heads with valve covers, L67 fuel rails, L67 Lower intake manifold, eaton m90 supercharger

either 1. ZZP ssm90 pulley and run single belt setup with a tensioner bolted into motor near coil pack.
or 2. L67 balancer, coil pack bracket and pulley setup, and run 2 belts just like GTP's and SSEi's

lots of gaskets and bolts, I recommend getting the zzp topswap gasket kit http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/5 ... t-Kit.aspx

My build!
Cylinder heads I bought from someone on GPF came quite dirty, so here are pics of cleaning them/making them usable
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left is after, right is before

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exhaust stud broken off in head :( local machine shop charged like 20$ to take it out. so not bad

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dirty valve

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partially clean heads soaking in parts cleaner

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parts cleaner eating through the gunk

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all valves and springs locks etc bagged and number for different cylinder numbers and heads, not necessary, but I wanted to do this just to be sure, as it was my first time with cylinder heads even off a car, much less apart.

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much cleaner heads!!

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nice mating surface

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fully reassembled heads and new valve seals.

now that the heads are clean and ready to go, on to tearing apart the car!

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Lim and other assorted emmissions removed

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So originally this car came with an air pump to put into the exhaust... I thought that was silly. Removed all metal lines, and it just turns out that the flange fits a quarter nicely, so a little (maybe too much...) orange RTV seals it right up. friend has HP tuners so I figured we would just tune out the code. Turns out, there's no code, awesome!

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pretty rebuilt and clean heads almost ready to go on car!

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me being a goofball in the engine bay, removal of rear header at this point I think.

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more stuff out of the way, valves and rockers starting to come out.

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Pistons!! Cylinder head has been removed.

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cylinder walls have factory honing at over 145k miles, very nice!

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better pic of front head off car

http://i.imgur.com/6yAD1en.jpg
both heads off

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mocking up rails because my L67 rails were *slightly* bent in shipping.....

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AHHH, SUPERCHARGER ON MY CAR!

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Finished product!!

*****NOTE**** I got 60LB injectors and am running e85. That is why I am able to run a 3.6 inch pulley on a ported blower on a high compression engine. currently seeing a whopping ZERO degrees of KR. Engine runs beautifully. On gas, I would recommend starting with at least a 4.0 pulley or higher until you have supporting mods or know you can run a smaller pulley safely. This car was bone stock prior save for the cone filter. Any questions or help with a topswap I would love to answer!! This project was awesome, fun to do, and was done by me and a friend over a weekend with basic mechanical knowledge and finding info from forums.

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Me pumping corn into my car

If you are going to say I am going to blow up my car, that its not made for a supercharger or my engine is too weak. You're wrong. No hard part differences in the engines (L36/L67) other than the compression ratio(8.5:1 vs 9.4:1). I have a friend with a grand prix who topswapped over 20k miles ago and is now putting well over 300HP down to the wheels, tested on a dyno. Also on a stock, non HD 4t65e transmission. His car(icing blower before dyno run) Image DYNO!! Image and pretty blued header pic for good measure Image
Adecker
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by Adecker »

Dude no. Your going to break it... blah blah blah :P

On a serious note, these engines can take a beating. I would know, my current car is a 04 Grand Prix Gen V Blower, XP HOT Cam, full stack Intercooler, headers, E85, 60Lbs injectors, intake, LQ4 MAF putting down around 400+ WHP and 450 WTQ (Need to get a dyno soon). Oh and a stock 4t65E transmission. Runs like a dream.
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nos4blood70
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by nos4blood70 »

Saw this on GPF.

You're not helping my topswap wants.
-Car Guy Carl
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snowth1ef
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by snowth1ef »

Adecker wrote:Dude no. Your going to break it... blah blah blah :P

On a serious note, these engines can take a beating. I would know, my current car is a 04 Grand Prix Gen V Blower, XP HOT Cam, full stack Intercooler, headers, E85, 60Lbs injectors, intake, LQ4 MAF putting down around 400+ WHP and 450 WTQ (Need to get a dyno soon). Oh and a stock 4t65E transmission. Runs like a dream.

Decker you have the HD trans tho haha. And I think you're pretty hopeful saying 400+ wheel... you're not even down to machining your snout yet..
snowth1ef
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by snowth1ef »

nos4blood70 wrote:Saw this on GPF.

You're not helping my topswap wants.

DO IT!! it's awesome. No one expects a silly SLE to be this fast. Almost held my own with a GP GXP (yeah with the 5.3 V8) on the interstate the other day, with my car loaded down with all my college crap.... The look on his face was priceless!! :bwoohoo:
snowth1ef
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by snowth1ef »

nos4blood whats all done to your car?
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crash93ssei
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by crash93ssei »

About time someone does this to a Bonneville to show all the naysayers! I would prefer the HD diff, but wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I have a complete spare L67 just sitting around and I am thinking of doing this eventually as well ;)
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by SSEiMan01 »

I keep telling Carl to do it. XD
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by haro1225 »

What kind of MPG's are you seeing with the E85? And did you change the fuel pump? I know a couple of people running E85 and they had to put in a different fuel pump due to the stock pump not being able to keep up with the bigger injectors.
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Adecker
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by Adecker »

I am running the stock pump right now, it was fine until I hit the 2.8 even then its fine until I pass 6100RPM (Shifting at 6250-6500ish) then it starts to taper. Getting an AEM pump soon.


Oh and snow, I was 386 on a 3.2.... Pretty sure Im at least 400 now, if not after my fuel pump so I dont starve at the top.
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nos4blood70
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by nos4blood70 »

My car is basically a stock NA car with some cheap mods. I mean it's quick for an NA 3800 I won't argue that, but that's like saying something flies pretty well for being a whale.

All things aside, what's holding me back from a topswap is fear. Fear of not doing it right, fear of a head gasket leak, fear of a broken trans within 3 days, and fear of blowing my motor. I know many have done it with success but God did not smile my way with luck, as many here could tell you.

I applaud you on your amazing Bonneville, can't wait to see what headers and maybe some rockers will do for you.
-Car Guy Carl
"Penelope" - 2003 SLE - 250k Miles
"Sydney" - 2000 Honda S2000 - 101k miles
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snowth1ef
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by snowth1ef »

Well this was my first time having heads off a car, and all went well. Thanks!
snowth1ef
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by snowth1ef »

haro1225 wrote:What kind of MPG's are you seeing with the E85? And did you change the fuel pump? I know a couple of people running E85 and they had to put in a different fuel pump due to the stock pump not being able to keep up with the bigger injectors.
Stock pump still, no issues until you near 300 WHP, seeing about 23-25 but can squeeze some more out with more tuning time.
snowth1ef
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by snowth1ef »

Adecker wrote:I am running the stock pump right now, it was fine until I hit the 2.8 even then its fine until I pass 6100RPM (Shifting at 6250-6500ish) then it starts to taper. Getting an AEM pump soon.


Oh and snow, I was 386 on a 3.2.... Pretty sure Im at least 400 now, if not after my fuel pump so I dont starve at the top.
\



Umm decker, you were like 293 WHP at ice cream cruise.. I was there for your dyno.
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by freneticburn »

I topswapped and cammed my bonne a while ago. Still the same transmission and I have about 122k miles, I think I did the topswap and cam at 109k miles. I surprise the hell out of a lot of people with the whine. I only have a stock 3.8 pulley right not but plan to get headers and go MPS with a 3.6 and 3.4
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by Zeik75 »

Hey carl..........do it!

Also try driving a completly stock 88 bonneville, im sure your car is a rocket compared to mine...........at least until it gets a turbo...or two :twisted:
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by Adecker »

ROFL Sorry! I Hit the wrong numbers and didnt even notice! :P I was like wtf at first. but yeah your right. 293 well over 300 now :P haha sorrrryyyyyy
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nos4blood70
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by nos4blood70 »

I would be a lot more eager to do it if I didn't have to pull the heads.
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snowth1ef
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by snowth1ef »

interstate pull for anyone who is curious, stock motor prior, now topswap, 60lb injectors, e85, 3.6 pulley. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVnmIlNAwvU
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Re: Topswap build!

Post by Zeik75 »

Pretty neato! Seems quicker than my SSEi.....which makes me want to mod it more now. On a side note the mileage in that video is almost exactly what mine was when i bought it.
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-Austin-
1988 LE, Intercooled L67 loading......

2000 SSEi R.I.P. Dead now :( INTENSE FWI, polished LIM, P&P supercharger, custom radiator, standalone trans cooler, trans-go shift kit (donating to the 88)

2002 2500HD Silverado with the 8.1 Vortec and Alison tranny. Likes to eat GT Mustangs and lots of tires, and all while stock!

yourgrandma wrote:And thats how I got my mom pregnant.
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