Passenger side front and rear windows inop

[cudaguy]

2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE, 3800 180k on the clock, prepping for a sale

After a few years of that far side of the car being inop, I finally got around to pulling the drivers seat and opening the loom to repair the corroded connector that prevents those windows from functioning.

Big problem is.....the connector is clean as a whistle, no corrosion or even any signs of water under the seat in the pan anywhere. Since I was down there, I effected the prescribed repair anyway. Lo and behold, it did nothing.

I have two passenger side windows that do not work, though on a rare occasion when I try just for giggles, it will operate. It seems to be in the mid spring and early fall ( I know, crazy, but that's the only time they ever function). I never actually leave them open as I don't want to be stuck in a windows down situation.

The door locks and mirror on that side have always functioned.

Anyone have any more ideas?

[Luxrain]

do the switches on those doors work? it could just be your main switch on the drivers door

[cudaguy]

No, there is a very muted click when any window button is pushed, either up or down, but no window movement

[ddalder]

First of all, a troubleshooting tip for anyone else reading this thread...

The data bus connection under the driver's seat (for this isolated bus is four tan wires) is not going to be the problem if some functions in each door work. For example, if the passenger mirror and/or door lock works, this connection is not the problem. The corrosion problem can be isolated to one or more of front passenger door or rear doors but commonly involves all three. If the door lock, window (and passenger mirror - where applicable) all stop operating in one or more doors, corrosion under the driver's seat should definitely be a consideration.

Back to your problem... There are a couple of things that come to mind.

1. First, if you're hearing the relay click behind the door panel but the window doesn't move then it may be a defective window regulator or motor. Since regulators in these cars are a well known point of failure, it would not be far fetched for you to have problems with more than one.

2. There have also been instances where several strands of the large (orange) wire routed through the rubber boot between the door and body have broken over time. This is the primary high-current feed to the door module. I have seen first hand instances where some low current door functions work. When several strands of the wire break the remaining strands cannot supply the current required to operate the motor.

3. There may be bad wiring inside the door between the door module and the window motor. You can check for corrosion at the applicable connectors.

4. The relay contacts in the door module may be pitted from heavy use over the years and may not be making adequate contact. This is a really long shot and would be the absolute last on my list of considerations. In theory it's possible, but I don't think I've ever heard of an actual case where this was the issue.

[redfury]

I would at the very least, open the passenger front door panel and measure resistance and voltage at the motor. The two pins on the motor are both going to be 12v depending on what function is commanded to the motor, the switch will send 12v to the side of the motor that needs to be excited to move it up or down ( clockwise or counter clockwise ). You can bring 12v directly to the motor and see if you can get it to operate with a fused wire. If the motor works without issue with a separate lead, then you have a problem in the wiring.

[MikeKerr]

Two thoughts (1) there are two places where corrosion occurs under the driver passenger seat, maybe you only inspected one? (2), the window motors with age hit dry spots, dry slamming the door while pressing the window down switch, or what I have done is pull off the door panel and hit the motor with a rubber mallet, that always worked for a few weeks.... I do not think it is a broken wire in the door harness, you would likely be experiencing no windows working, no door locks working, and radio stuck on after power off much longer than it should.

[ddalder]

Two thoughts (1) there are two places where corrosion occurs under the driver passenger seat, maybe you only inspected one? (2), the window motors with age hit dry spots, dry slamming the door while pressing the window down switch, or what I have done is pull off the door panel and hit the motor with a rubber mallet, that always worked for a few weeks.... I do not think it is a broken wire in the door harness, you would likely be experiencing no windows working, no door locks working, and radio stuck on after power off much longer than it should.

I'm unaware of the second place where corrosion occurs under the passenger seat where this can cause these symptoms. Can you be more specific? I've opened up virtually my entire main body harness when I modified a complete replacement and don't recall this. The schematic for the Simple Bus Interface between the four door modules only shows splice S302 under the driver's seat where all four TAN/WHT wires connect. Apart from this, the only other connections are at each respective door connector where the door harnesses attach.

In regards to a broken wire in the door jamb, as mentioned, this is certainly a possibility. We were working on harofreak00's car one evening and this is exactly what occurred with his right rear door. Voltage was present at the door module, other door functions worked fine but enough of the strands of wire were broken that it could not supply enough current to power the window motor. Since this wire breaking is a progressive action from opening and closing the door, it's entirely possible.

Your comment regarding the motor and flat spots is definitely valid and should be caught in the process of routine troubleshooting.

[MikeKerr]

"there is a very muted click when any window button is pushed, either up or down, but no window movement"
In my experience, this is a sign of a frozen window motor and can often be temporarily fixed by holding the window power down switch while slamming the door closed, or holding the window switch down and striking the motor directly with a rubber mallet. I used the rubber mallet trick for both my front drive and passenger door, I was not clever enough to do the slam the door method. The slam the door method is much easier as the door panel does not need to be removed.

"'I'm unaware of the second place where corrosion occurs under the passenger seat where this can cause these symptoms. Can you be more specific? I've opened up virtually my entire main body harness when I modified a complete replacement and don't recall this. The schematic for the Simple Bus Interface between the four door modules only shows splice S302 under the driver's seat where all four TAN/WHT wires connect. "

About six years ago I tore apart the junction where the wires come together and cleaned, cut and soldered the wires. A few months later had same issue, inspected the soldered area and it was clean. Did more probing and found another area near by that had corroded. We are going back six years and I believe my statement to be accurate- but I am human and could be mistaken.

[ddalder]

I'm not trying to minimize the assistance you're offering. I think it's great that lots of people can get together on a forum and help to solve each others problems. Anyone on the forum who has followed me over the years knows that I'm a strong proponent of following logical, thorough troubleshooting steps. I understand that your experience has led you to a frozen window motor. This is a perfectly valid possibility, also why it was #1 on my list above. Likewise however, I've also seen wiring problems in door jambs and corrosion problems with wiring inside the door, both equally as valid. I'm simply pointing out real-world faults that crept up. Remote troubleshooting is very difficult at the best of times. "... there is a very muted click..." really says nothing about whether the noise is the relay in the door module or the motor. This doesn't mean your input is any less valid. Long story short, I firmly believe in methodical troubleshooting to positively identify a fault. From all the car forums I've been a member of over the years, repeatedly people jump to a single conclusion and throw parts at a problem that doesn't fix the issue. Just trying to put all reasonable options up for investigation

My question about being more specific with details of your troubleshooting was genuine. I thought if you could elaborate further I may be able to envision the specific area you were referring to. Although I looked at the schematics and have had an entire harness apart, manuals are not always correct and there may have been a previous repair or update in your car that didn't necessarily apply to every other vehicle.