Mother of all repair lists

goochman · Post by **goochman** » Fri May 04, 2012 10:46 am

Sorry for the lack of detailed subject - Just got back from a tire rotation and the visual inspection turned up alot of stuff I believe is common for the '02 Bonneville SLE but I wanted to get some advice from the experts here.

First - the car has been running rough for awhile - it feels like an unbalanced washing machine some times at light throttle when driving over 30mph.

The Check Engine light comes on every now and then - I just plugged in my ODBII reader and a P0404 code was stored and pending (Exhaust Gas Recirculation Control Circuit Range/Performance)

So here is what was found by the tech:

VALVE COVER GASKET - UPPER AND LOWER INTAKE
GASKETS - THROTTLE BODY GASKET - PLANUM GASKET - These were determined to all be leaking. $250 for all the gaskets and $1000 labor to install all of them. Is there a specific Upper/Lower intake I should be getting - I believe there is a new design? Anything on the other gaskets I should know?

RACK & PINION - It was deteremined the Rack and Power Steering pump were leaking. Thoughts on the need to replace the rack? Quote of $380 for the rack and $200 labor

Rear shocks - $320 for the pair, $200 labor

Front strut - $350 for the pair, $160 labor

There is also a CV Boot problem which buried in the cost appears to be about $250 parts/labor

Thoughts on prices/need for some of this? I live in the Rockville, MD area if anyone knows a good mechanic would could do the work more reasnabily otherwise this Bonney made be headed for the end of the road.

Car was tuned up last year so new plugs/wires were put in. Tranny was flushed last year as well.

Oil pan and transmission pan gaskets (leaking) - $300 parts/labor for both

crash93ssei · Post by **crash93ssei** » Fri May 04, 2012 10:54 am

Have you ever wrenched on your own car?

It would be great if you could do many of those yourself... they are quoting you about $3,000 worth of parts and labor that you could probably do yourself for about $800 or so if you can do your own work.

goochman · Post by **goochman** » Fri May 04, 2012 10:59 am

crash93ssei wrote:Have you ever wrenched on your own car?

It would be great if you could do many of those yourself... they are quoting you about $3,000 worth of parts and labor that you could probably do yourself for about $800 or so if you can do your own work.

I also need rear brakes so its about $4000 total :O - I have a mechanic that can do the strut/brake stuff but Im not sure if he would want to do the gasket stuff as he prefers to work on older cars.

I also dont think he has worked on the 3800 engine.

00Beast · Post by **00Beast** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:10 pm

Then he doesn't know that you have to replace the entire upper plenum, not just the gasket.

Like Ryan said, how mechanically proficient are you? These cars are fairly simple to work on, and Techinfo is full of good write-ups on just about everything you need done. Most of this could be done between getting off work on Friday and supper-time Sunday, and finish up the next weekend, and you can save a boat-load, even if you have to pay a buddy in cold beer and pizza.

I have done just about everything on this list, and while some of it is frustrating, just dig in and it can be done. I'm also only 20.

Also, some of their prices are nuts. You can get rear shocks for $65, and the trans pan gasket probably just needs to be re-tightened, as it's a re-usable gasket for it.

Ken_W · Post by **Ken_W** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:32 pm

You did not mention the mileage on your car, but I doubt it is worth spending $4-5k on it. As others above have mentioned, however, most of the items on your list are common procedures that are well documented here at our Club and elsewhere and are within the reach of a do-it-yourself'er. If you have NEVER worked on a car, then it might be a tougher decision, but even an amateur with a little experience and a basic set of tools could accomplish several of the needed items, greatly reducing the total cost.

If you want to try and do it yourself, there is information here already that can guide you, as well as many experienced folks who have done this work on their own Bonnevilles who could guide you as well as tell you how to buy the best parts at the lowest cost. I would recommend doing one procedure at a time, nice and slow, starting with the easier ones first, and build up your confidence that way. As someone mentioned above, the potential savings are huge, but if you do not have the time or interest then it might not be practical. Only you can make that call.

Ken_W

goochman · Post by **goochman** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:28 pm

Thanks Ken - it has 133K miles on it.

I looked over some of the LIM and UIM instructions and though I have a set of tools and do the odd handy job here and there it seems pretty daunting for me.

I dont have something to hold/recover the coolant and making sure its all gone and no air in the system. I know Id blow something up

I can change plugs and muck around with a few things but pulling off the headers is a bit out of my league I think...

goochman · Post by **goochman** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:32 pm

is there a writeup on the upper pleum replacement?

"replace the entire upper plenum, not just the gasket"

00Beast · Post by **00Beast** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:46 pm

http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... =53&t=3591

UIM = Upper Plenum

No need to remove the exhaust manifolds. Not sure what you're reading about that...

goochman · Post by **goochman** » Sun May 06, 2012 12:06 pm

Ken,

I mistook some of the pictures for the headers being off - guess that shows my ability to read and follow directions closely

I may have found a shade tree mechanic to help but dont have a price - from the things I listed here are the parts Ive seen on this site that I would need - please let me know if I am missing anything that I need to tell me mechanic and thanks in advance for any help!

Rear Shocks: Monroe MA822 Max-Air Air Shocks

UIM: GM Intake "Sure Fix" Manifold Kit Product ID: 17806 from Indeed parts - this takes care of the 'Plenum' parts as well?

Indeed lists a LIM kits as well:

LIM: 96-08 Lower Intake Gasket Set 3800 V-6 PermaDryPlus Product ID: 20000 - so between both of these kits is that all I need for my UIM/LIM/Plenum replacement?

Indeed offers both of these kits for $165 which sounds like a great price.

My work order also had listed valve cover gasket and throttle body gasket - not sure if the UIM/LIM stuff covers that?

Something about the EGR bore is also mentioned but appears to indicate 95-98, I have a 2002 - do I need to worry about warpage and this part: Here is a link to APNâ€™s sleeved upper: http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/s ... uct=229679

If I get the Indeed part kits above what pieces below do I not need or do I still need all of them:
--GM Second Design Plastic Frame Lower Intake Manifold Gasket set: PN# 89017400
--GM Aluminum Frame Lower Intake Manifold Gasket set: GM PN# 89017816
--GM Coolant Bypass Elbow: PN# 24503423
--Dorman â€œhelpâ€ replacement cooling elbows with o-rings (include two elbows for 99-05 models)
--Fel-Pro Lower Intake Manifold Gasket set: # MS95809-1 (2nd design with pins for end seals)

I also have a front strut and CV boot that needed replacing - any suggestions for those?

theax40 · Post by **theax40** » Sun May 06, 2012 12:14 pm

I've been shopping around for an upper plenum kit and a lower intake gasket, also. I think you can get them for less at rockauto.com. Plus a Bonneville Club discount

GMC Guy · Post by **GMC Guy** » Sun May 06, 2012 2:53 pm

Not sure about the Yankee price on the intake set...but the Canuck price is $50
I did mine on my 99SSEi last year. it was a large job, but not overly complicated.
here is the link for a set for FEL-PRO from rock auto

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

FEL-PRO Part # MS98014T PermaDryPlus®; Intake Manifold Gasket Set
2nd Design; w/Rubber-plastic end seals w/Locating pins; Lower set only; Upper set not incl.; PermaDryPlus® int. manifold gskts. incl.

CAD$50.55

now there is supposed to be a "complete trouble shoot" set but i cant think of the suffix for it.

I have used FEL-PRO on all my vehicle gasket needs and found them worth every cent. only gasket that did NOT come with mine was the supercharger to intake gasket.

if you have a spot and dont mind getting your hands dirty (and a couple bloody knuckles) do some of the work yourself.

lots of saved $
just my own erroneous opinion
hope this helps

edited for link (not a computer savvy guy)

00Beast · Post by **00Beast** » Sun May 06, 2012 3:27 pm

There is some misinformation in here.

Upper Plenum: Yes, the kit you listed is what you need.

Lower Intake: You can get just the gaskets from either a GM Dealer, Intense Racing (GM Aluminum Gasket) or Rock Auto or an Auto-Parts store (Fel Pro Aluminum), and you don't have all the extra parts that are already included in your upper plenum kit (o-rings and gaskets), and they're a little cheaper. I have heard of some issues with the end-cap gaskets not being the right height, causing issues, so beware.

You will also need the elbows. You have every different available LIM gasket listed, you only need one of those, but don't get the plastic ones, lol.

Shocks: Yes, those are what you need. They come sold in pairs, so you need 1 of that part number.

Ken_W · Post by **Ken_W** » Sun May 06, 2012 4:10 pm

The throttle body gasket and valve cover gaskets are not included in either of those two sets, so yes they do need to be ordered separately.

The UIM and LIM kits look okay to me, although as Beast00 points out there is a slight overlap in the sets (both have injector O-rings and maybe a couple other O-rings that are common). Otherwise these two sets seem like a good combo. One concern is not knowing who the manufacturer is (I doubt that ineedparts.com makes their own parts) but such is not necessarily a deal-breaker. The LIM gaskets appear to be aluminum, which is a good thing, and in the wording for the first set it sounds like they know about specific issues found on 3800 engines -- also a good sign.

CV boot: I'd replace the whole CV shaft with a remanufactured one, but some are happy with just replacing the boot and repacking with grease. I'd go with whatever your mechanic recommends on this one.

Strut: I'm a fan of Monroe QuickStruts (part number for 00-05 Bonnevilles is 171685). A lot less labor to install -- regardless of who does the work. You can sometimes get these cheapest at Amazon.com, otherwise try RockAuto.com (with our 5% Club discount) or AdvanceAuto.com with discount code from here: http://advance-auto-parts.cheaperseeker ... QAodfFcS3w

Don't be alarmed if the car "rides high" at first after replacing struts. It should settle down over time.

Ken_W

GMC Guy · Post by **GMC Guy** » Sun May 06, 2012 6:04 pm

00Beast wrote:There is some misinformation in here.

Ooops sorry did not mean to miss-inform....
I go to penalty box and feel shame now.

goochman · Post by **goochman** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:07 pm

Ok let me clean up my parts list a bit based upont he responses so far:

Rear Shocks: Monroe MA822 Max-Air Air Shocks

UIM: GM Intake "Sure Fix" Manifold Kit Product ID: 17806 from Indeed parts - this takes care of the 'Plenum' parts as well?

LIM: GM Aluminum Frame Lower Intake Manifold Gasket set: GM PN# 89017816 *OR* FEL-PRO Part # MS98014T PermaDryPlus®; Intake Manifold Gasket Set

GM Coolant Bypass Elbow: PN# 24503423

----------------------
Still a question about this part on the UIM replacement page - do I need to look at this?

Something about the EGR bore is also mentioned but appears to indicate 95-98, I have a 2002 - do I need to worry about warpage and this part: Here is a link to APNâ€™s sleeved upper: http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/s ... uct=229679

valve cover gasket and throttle body gasket - order seperate

00Beast · Post by **00Beast** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:18 pm

The Upper Plenum kit comes with the reduced diameter stovepipes you need.

Ken_W · Post by **Ken_W** » Sun May 06, 2012 9:05 pm

The six things on your list should cover everything you need for the projects you've listed. (If anybody disagrees please chime in.) Note that you need two valve cover gaskets -- they are usually sold in pairs, but it never hurts to verify such.

As a totally optional thing, many people replace their thermostat when doing this job. You are already getting new thermostat gaskets with your kits, and will have to temporarily remove the thermostat anyway -- putting a new one in only adds $10-$15 to the project. Get a regular one that opens at around 195-degrees (not the 180 or 160-degree ones, which are "mods" and not what you are looking for right now). "Stant" is a common brand that is reasonably priced. If you want to keep your existing thermostat, that would most likely be okay also. Your choice -- depends on how long you plan on keeping the car.

Ken_W

goochman · Post by **goochman** » Mon May 07, 2012 2:20 pm

Ken,

So I keep a clean running order here:

1. Rear Shocks: Monroe MA822 Max-Air Air Shocks

2. UIM: GM Intake "Sure Fix" Manifold Kit Product ID: 17806 from Indeed parts

3. LIM: GM Aluminum Frame Lower Intake Manifold Gasket set: GM PN# 89017816

4. GM Coolant Bypass Elbow: PN# 24503423 (just 1?)

5. Valve cover gasket (need 2 but usually come in pairs) - any suggested part # or site?

6. Throttle body gasket - any suggested part # or site?

7. Struts - Monroe QuickStruts (part number for 00-05 Bonnevilles is 171685)

8. CV Boot - look at remanufacture or replace/repack

9. Thermostat - Stant model 195 degree

I also need new rear brake pads/rotors - might as well ask if anyone has a recommended set

00Beast · Post by **00Beast** » Mon May 07, 2012 2:41 pm

VC and TB Gaskets: Fel-Pro, available pretty much anywhere.

Pads/rotors: I like Napa Ultra Premium, but whatever you get, get the "premium" or top-shelf option versus the cheap stuff. You'll be glad you did.

goochman · Post by **goochman** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:56 pm

1. Rear Shocks: Monroe MA822 Max-Air Air Shocks - ~$60

2. UIM: GM Intake "Sure Fix" Manifold Kit Product ID: 17806 from Indeed parts - ~$90

3. LIM: GM Aluminum Frame Lower Intake Manifold Gasket set: GM PN# 89017816 - ~$40

4. GM Coolant Bypass Elbow: PN# 24503423 - $6

5. Valve cover gasket (need 2 but usually come in pairs) - Fel Pro VS50080R - ~$12

6. Throttle body gasket - Felpro 61093 ~$5

7. Struts - Monroe QuickStruts (part number for 00-05 Bonnevilles is 171685) - ~$130

8. CV Boot - look at remanufacture or replace/repack - Dorman Front Inner 44076 $15, Front Outer 44077 $20

9. Thermostat - Stant model 195 degree - ~$10

10. rear brake pads/rotors - NAPA Ultra Premium Rear Rotors NB 4886851 ~$30x2, Pads UP UP7387BM ~$60

So about $500. For a CV Boot replacement do you need the inner and outer boots?

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