Performance Comparo

[mtcrss2006]

Has anyone done comparisons of aftermarket parts? For example- Intense, ZZP, and W Body store all sell PCM flashes for the L67. Has anyone ran on the dyno with any 2 of these and can say one's better than the other or other two?

Same goes for FWI's with Intense vs Thrasher vs gutting the stock box.

Ignition wires- ZZP vs MSD vs stock (ZZP claims on their eBay site that their wires are 5.7 hp over stock and 4 hp over MSD, but i'd say they're a little biased WBS claims, "When replacing plug wires there is no performance advantage to be had when upgrading to a more expensive wire. As such, we offer the stock AC Delco wires as a suitable replacement for all but the most extreme setups.")

[2000Silverbullet]

The first PCM I used was from ZZP. It performed very well.
The second and third PCM's were from Intense. They performed very well.

Slight differences between them but the comparisons are not equal due to other modifications.

I like both companies products but Intense sells more Bonne specific products and ZZP is primarily GP oriented for the L67.

[00Beast]

The Thrasher setup is designed for GP's and sucks hot engine bay air. The Intense FWI was designed for the Bonneville, and gets cooler air from behind the bumper.

Your best bet is to find someone with HP Tuners or DHP and get your PCM custom tuned, once you add all the mods you want/can afford for a while.

Get Beldin Premium plug wires from NAPA. No plug wire will give you MORE power. They will however gain back power from old worn out wires that have higher resistance. The older the wires, the more power you will restore.

I suggest before doing any mods, have your car scanned for Knock Retard after making sure EVERY item on this list has been checked for proper function or replaced. I ignored my O2 sensors for a year and a half, and I gained back almost 2 MPG and quite a bit of power after replacing them this spring, as my rear O2 failed. Unless it's throwing a code, just replace the front.

Two other good starting mods are a solid front (hockey puck) mount (search for it on this site) and a shift kit combined with the pan drop and filter in the trans. These will make your trans work better, and ensure all your power is getting to the ground, instead of moving the engine in the mounts.

I cannot stress enough proper vehicle maintenance, and its effect on overall performance. Car can't go fast if it's always in the shop, or not properly tuned up.

• 1987-2005 Bonneville / Buick 3800 Maintenance List
  
  Run Seafoam through gasoline and intake every 5,000 miles. One pint of Seafoam in a half tank of fuel is a good mix. The intake is optional, but recommended.
  
  Grease: Ball Joints, Tie Rods Every 8-10k ( Green Grease recommended)
  Air Filter Every 15k (Amsoil EaA, Purolator PureONE)
  PCV Valve Every 30k
  MAF Sensor Element Cleaning/TB Cleaning Every 50k viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1661
  Fuel Filter Every 15-25k (Purolator, AC Delco, WIX)
  Spark Plugs Every 30-50k (NGK TR55 or Autolite 605) (Never Bosch)
  Ignition Wires Every 30-50k (Napa Belden, AC Delco, Autolite Pro, NGK) (Never Taylor or Bosch)
  Oil & Filter Every 5-6k or Every 6 months (Mobil1 or Amsoil)(Mobil1, Purolator PureONE, Amsoil EaO or WIX) (Never Fram) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=214
  *Conventional Oil Every 3k/3 months(Pennzoil with a WIX (Napa), Delco or Purolator filter)
  Transmission Flush or Pan Drop Every 15-20k (Always make sure filter is changed when flushed) http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... 45&t=10193
  Cooling System Flush Every 25-50k or 3-5 Years (Peak or Prestone Green Coolant Only) (Never Dexcool)
  Oxygen Sensor Every 80-100k (30k for non-heated) (AC Delco or Denso) (Absolutely never Bosch) viewtopic.php?f=48&t=794
  Accessory Belt Inspect every 15k, replace every 100k, or as needed
  Cabin Air Filter Inspect and Replace every 15k, or as needed in dusty conditions. (Note: 00+ Only)
  Evap Core Cleaning Whenever Needed (Note: 99 and older only) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2432
  
  *Special Considerations*
  All 3800s, LG3, LN3, L27, L36, L26, L67 & L32, especially important on vehicles factory installed with orange Havoline Dexcool Antifreeze/Coolant: http://www.dex-cool.net/
  Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Replacement, every 80-100k (ignorance of this can allow coolant to enter your engine oil, this happening can cause irreversible lower engine damage, requiring replacement of subject engine)
  
  Series II, Naturally Aspirated, RPO:L36:
  Upper Intake Manifold Plenum Replacement, Every 80-100k (ignorance of this can allow coolant to enter your intake manifold, possible damage to occur can be hydrolock, irreversible damage to emissions devices, misfires, etc. Most times, engine replacement is required if ignored long enough.) viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1061
  
  Series I, II, III RPO Code L67 & L32:
  Change Supercharger Oil; Every 30-50k. (Intense Racing or GM Dealer) viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1690
  Supercharger Belt; Inspect Every 15k, Replace Every 100k or as needed.

5/24/10 by 00Beast

[mtcrss2006]

God bless Snap-On scanners:

Knock retard at 93*F ambient temps: 4* (after 15 min. of idling)
KR at 84*F temps: 2*

I was anxious/click happy/dumb and went for those ZZP Wires.

As for maintenance list:
Greasing- Done with oil change
Air filter- Clean, but will be replacing soon with FWI of sorts.
PCV- Looking into soon.
MAF/TB Cleaning- Doing on my day off tomorrow
Fuel Filter- Haven't considered yet (If it was plugged, my AFR would be horrible and I'd knock a LOT...right?)
Plugs- Agreed, going 1 stage colder to match a 180*F stat
Wires- In the mail. Red. 10.3 mm. ZZP
Oil change- Just done, Castrol Edge.. unfortunately with a FRAM
Trans: This weekend.
Cooling flush: Check/done/roger
O2 sensors: can't be too horrible.. I'll pulling 28-30 mpg highway and 18 city. all stock.

And to not sway this thread too much... If i wanted to make my tranny last longer, should I opt for the PCM (electronic) shift kit that comes with the tune or the physical spring one? Doing both would probably break something....

[Larz01]

To answer your question:

Intense pcm's are junk. zzp's are better but still not great. Get your car tuned locally by someone that knows what they are doing is your best option, what 00beast said & it will (should) be cheaper. The tuner can set the file to have firmer shifts, no need for a shift kit.

Intake is an intake. The colder the air & least bends the best. I found mine at Menard's.

Stock ignition is trump.

Get a wix fuel filter.

Get Autolite 104 spark plugs.

Your set, any more questions let us know.

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

The electronic shifting mods are all well and good until the electronics break, as they are wont to do on that era of 4T65. Get a good mechanical shift kit, such as a TransGo. It'll save you heartbreak down the road. If you're cheap, you can make your own for $5 in parts from Lowes.

[willwren]

INTENSE and ZZP both sell shift kits as well. Slight advantage to INTENSE.

INTENSE and ZZP PCM's are not junk. They are well-thought and programmed, and are an improvement over stock for the mildly-modded car. Both can be customized. If you have a tuner in your area, go that way if you can, but don't consider either of the above-mentioned PCM's 'Junk'.

[Larz01]

INTENSE and ZZP PCM's are not junk. They are well-thought and programmed, and are an improvement over stock for the mildly-modded car. Both can be customized. If you have a tuner in your area, go that way if you can, but don't consider either of the above-mentioned PCM's 'Junk'.

I correct myself, then an OEM pcm is well-thought and programmed. To the OP you asked for opinion, I gave it.

[00Beast]

Do you realize how long it takes to make a factory tune? They have to make it with emissions, mileage, performance and longevity in mind, not absolute power and performance. If all GM cared about (and was allowed to care about) was absolute power and performance, we'd all have Stage 4 cams and heads stock, with ported blowers and 400 HP in our 3800's.

[Larz01]

Do you realize how long it takes to make a factory tune? They have to make it with emissions, mileage, performance and longevity in mind, not absolute power and performance.

Exactly my point. Vendors do the same, your paying for a factory file with 5 changes made to it that take 2 seconds to do. Just zzp adds more fuel and adjusts trans settings into theirs, verse intense; and intense is a major fail, ie. its disables injectors in torque management = chucked piston; which is the first thing to change in a file.

[2000Silverbullet]

That is one difference I noticed with the ZZP PCM burn. The shifting was much more firm.
The last Intense burn I got really richened up the fuel... too much in fact. My tail pipes and back bumper get really black after running on the freeway. AFR is always dipping below 12 with a bit of throttle. I need a custom burn badly. Canned burns are far too conservative IMO. If only I had the patience and support to use my DHP properly.

[Larz01]

If only I had the patience and support to use my DHP properly.

You'll have to remove your pcm from the car and use an offboard.

[jtate300]

OK STUPID QUESTION.....if you go to intense will they just tune the pcm there for you since i live pretty close to there? or will they try to sell me one of thier own?

[WhiteArrow3800]

You're paying for the tune not the computer. It'll still cost the same minus the shipping and core charge. But yes, you can go to their shop and they can tune your PCM there.

[2000Silverbullet]

That's what I would do if I lived closer to Intense or someone who could do a proper tune.

[comatoast]

I dunno about all the hate on the canned tunes, But I just ordered a ZZP pcm , just for the fact that I could have my stock original one just incase something happened


Either way , Anyone I can find local , can still tune a zzp or intense pcm as I change my mods, but for me it was just the security of having my original stay, original

[00Beast]

Holy old thread!

[comatoast]

Holy old thread!

See.. Everyone tells us n00bs to search so we dont have to make the 1001th thread about the same thing.. Then when we bump an old one for a little info we get the big

[00Beast]

Search and find your answers, then make a post. Dragging up old threads to say you just bought a ZZP PCM isn't a great reason.

Just trying to help.

[comatoast]

I was Bumping this because I was looking for more info, without the need to make another thread .. My bad tho.