series III N/A

[swampthing]

i noticed supersle's problem and i have a question is it possible to supercharge a series III N/A to run in a l67's place? the reason i ask is this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-Gra ... 0269010334

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-07-08 ... 0269092990

[lewis26]

A search will yeild you the results you were looking for without starting a new thread.
its also in the techinfo.
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... =44&t=1687

not as easy as it sounds.

[2003 SSEi]

FALSE

the Series 3 (late 04 production) has the stronger powerd rods, the same as the L32

there are at LEAST 100 guys and i have personally witnessed 5 top swaps that have over 100,000 miles on them collectiuvelly both Series 2 L36 and Series 3 L26 with NO Issues

There are GP's Monte Carlos, Regals, Intrigues, and every other car that has a L36/26 has been swapped

In fact you can make more power with the higher compression with a Bigger pulley. there is a local guy with a 99 GT topswapped, with the 3.8 pulley and will outrun a 3.4'd GTP all day and night long

the Top swap being so terrible and tough is a Bonneville Club Myth. Period

[swampthing]

well i was just curious due to the fact that someone has a thread stating their l67 popped a piston and they didn't have money to repair their car and i know that series III N/A's can be bought rather cheaply on lkq with low miles also i don't know the engine codes for those motors so i wasn't sure if the techinfo article applied to the series III motors

[sandrock]

the Top swap being so terrible and tough is a Bonneville Club Myth. Period

It's not ENTIRELY false. It depends on the circumstances.

L27s CAN'T. In fact, more and more of them are dropping like flies even with mild mods. L36's have been proven to hold up well to L67 top swaps...that, I won't deny.

But what of the transmissions those bastardized L36/67 hybrids are in front of?

If one already has the HD components and all they need is the replacement short block, then I would say it's safe to substitute the L26. But that's as far as I am willing to comment.

[swampthing]

well that was my basic question that if you blow your L67 and all you needed was the block and/or heads. if you look at the links to lkq at the top you will see how inexpensive the series III N/A's are, they want twice as much for a L67 with twice as many miles! so if the series III internals can handle the added boost why not go that route? i'm just curious about it thats all especially for someone who is on a budget constraint

[willwren]

In addition to Sandrock's comments above, you also have to factor in the weight of the vehicles in question when considering total drivetrain stress. The Bonneville is a heavier/larger car, and exerts more stress on the transmission to begin with, just to get the mass moving.

There are alot of factors to consider.

There are also varying 'degrees' of swap. Full top swap? Modified LIM (minus heads) swap? And various forms of both of those. To clarify my comments on this, the L67 and L36 do not have the same cylinder heads (for those that don't know). L67's have the injector bosses in the heads (Series 2, not Series 1), and L36's have the injector bosses in the LIM.

L36's run 9.4:1 compression ratio, L67's run 8.5:1

[swampthing]

ok that makes sense but hypothetically if i cracked my block or something i could use a L36 short block then? i'm sorry if i seem dense i just want to understand

[sandrock]

Here is the breakdown for ya...

Let's just assume you are going to use the L36/L26 short block, and the rest is L67 parts. This Frankenmotor will have a higher compression ratio than the normal L67, meaning it will want to ping more under the same amount of boost pressure. To counteract this, you will have to "pulley up" your supercharger to a larger pulley to lower your boost pressure to one that the L36/26 can stomach without puking.

Now, if you obtain a tuner, you can dial in the PCM to make it more friendly to the new configuration and be able to run higher boost pressures. But to start, if you have to use the L36/L26 shortblock, pulley up the supercharger to play it safe.

[Jrs3800]

I know that a lot of people have done the Top swap on the L36 and there have been good results... But when you hold and take a look at the L67 Rods and pistons as compared to the L36 rod and piston you do attain a new understanding of what parts were built for Boost..

I do agree with what Sandrock has said...

Even My modded L27 is not handling the extra power very well... A couple of months ago it was cold starting( 80F ) at 80 Psi oil pressure with 10-30 Dino.... A few weeks back I found the oil pressure dropping and was hot idling at 15 Psi.... There were some shavings in the oil.... The Bottom end is not taking kindly to the mods...

The 95's original motor was modded and beat on... Bottom end held together, no oil pressure issues... But the Piston Slap( Slop / Clearance ) had become insane, no to mention the oil consumption went way way up with the piston slop in the bore...

Motor #2 Puked the #4 rod bearing( This on had all of the Mods the the original motor had )

The Current motor is still doing fine, but the Exhaust manifolds are original to the 96 engine... I never installed the PLOG and the Ported Rear on the 96 Motor and most likely never will..


Again I will say the L36/26 can take a top swap, but like Brad has mentioned, make sure you back off the boost and get the tune right... I won't stop you from doing this swap, but if anything please ask questions and take it slow..

[swampthing]

well i'm not doing one right now my motor is fine i just noticed if you go to lkq's ebay site you can get series III's all day long from them for less then 400.00 and not just GP ones but lacrosse and lucern ones too and if this was a feasible thing i thought somebody should tell the guy who is looking for an inexspensive motor

[Jrs3800]

Yep... Been doing my research on the L36 and L26 engines... And I can find them locally for cheap..

[swampthing]

thanx for explaining it to me i like to know all my options in case of emergency

[Jrs3800]

thanx for explaining it to me i like to know all my options in case of emergency

No Problem... The Van in my sig is going to get an L26 as opposed to another L27( Getting harder to find with low miles )... So it will have a Series III running an L36 Top and the gear ratio will be changed to a 3.33 to make good use of the series III's legs...LOL And I do like the idea of improved internals as well

[swampthing]

sweet

[willwren]

It all boils down to this:

Possible? Yes.

Practical? Depends.







You have to account for longevity, reliablitity, and what you want out of the car short and long term, while also accounting for the weight of the car, transmission, etc.

[2003 SSEi]

i have a question, Bill lets say for example if a Grand Prix GT, (since that is the most popular top swap) weighs in at 34xx-35xx lbs (proof is referenced from clubgp.com on a thread about the weight of the different years) why is there such a large concern about weight always in a top swap thread when a Bonneville weighs in at 35xx-36xx lbs?

Also the ONLY difference from a 4T65 to a 4T65-HD is the Diff and the Passenger axle

[swampthing]

i also noticed something i feel dumb but for some reason i thought that supersle's car was a ssei so now with me knowing that his is a N/A would him or someone else be able to swap a series III long block directly or would it still be too complicated

[00Beast]

His is a L67 swap, which is now getting a L36 shortblock to swap the old top end on to.