KR elimination Volume 2 (2000 SSEi)

[99ssei]

I don't think you need to necessarily start the MAF tune all over. You were right on last night with those numbers you posted.
Have you been resetting your fuel trims after each MAF table adjustment? I think for my tune, we determined when my car enters PE mode and changed the PE TPS settings so that they aligned with the car. Once your PE settings are calibrated to the car (only dealing with the TPS, i.e. - when the car needs to go into PE mode), then you can do your MAF tune.

btw, Since I've been using Gary's method, I just emailed Gary to tell him all the findings we had to see if he would add them to his guide. Perhaps when you are done with your tune, you can email Jerry to add your findings because you are using Jerry's method.

[Foghorn]

I would suggest that you already have enough data to determine at what point (in Hz) that your MAP is 100+. You can use Eddie's program with previous data if you'd rather not determine the point yourself.

Once you know this value (~6500 to 7000 Hz), you can set the PE Enable TPS% to correspond. At the same time, you should consider the PE Adder vs TPS% as the values in that table are the numerical AFR value that will be added to your target AFR in PE Mode. The idea behind this table is that you don't just go from 14.7 AFR to 11.8 AFR in one fell swoop.

So, determine the PE values and update those tables then start again with the stock MAF table. You shouldn't need more than 3 revisions.

Cheers,

[Allmachtige]

Paul, quick question on the PE table.

When looking at the log files that Eddie's program outputs I see that PE mode starts at 1600rpm at roughly 23% TPS and increases from there. However, from what I understand a typically tuned PE table will start high and decrease as RPMs increase.

What's your take on this?

[Allmachtige]

I think I'll ignore Eddie's logs for the time being. I'm looking at some scan logs and it looks like I hit 100 kPa between 27-30 when rolling into the throttle.

For now I'll make a flat PE table once I feel confident on a decision.

[Dirthead Racing]

More rpm=engine eating more air...just a thought.

[Foghorn]

I think I'll ignore Eddie's logs for the time being. I'm looking at some scan logs and it looks like I hit 100 kPa between 27-30 when rolling into the throttle.

For now I'll make a flat PE table once I feel confident on a decision.

Ignore the stuff at 1600rpm. Without looking at your scans, 27 to 30 sounds about right, probably closer to 27%.

Cheers,

[Allmachtige]

I think I'll ignore Eddie's logs for the time being. I'm looking at some scan logs and it looks like I hit 100 kPa between 27-30 when rolling into the throttle.

For now I'll make a flat PE table once I feel confident on a decision.

Ignore the stuff at 1600rpm. Without looking at your scans, 27 to 30 sounds about right, probably closer to 27%.

Cheers,

Should I even bother adjusting the cells in the lower rpms (<2000)?

[Foghorn]

I think I'll ignore Eddie's logs for the time being. I'm looking at some scan logs and it looks like I hit 100 kPa between 27-30 when rolling into the throttle.

For now I'll make a flat PE table once I feel confident on a decision.

Ignore the stuff at 1600rpm. Without looking at your scans, 27 to 30 sounds about right, probably closer to 27%.

Cheers,

Should I even bother adjusting the cells in the lower rpms (<2000)?

Go ahead...for the sake of simplicity.

Cheers,

[Allmachtige]

Posting this for documentation purposes only:

2280rpm = 25%
2476rpm = 26%
2724rpm = 28%
1628rpm = 21%

2794rpm = 30%
2691rpm = 28%
2896rpm = 31%
2521rpm = 29%
1672rpm = 22%
1798rpm = 21%
2230rpm = 25%
2675rpm = 28%
1670rpm = 21%
2092rpm = 25%
2269rpm = 27%
2423rpm = 25%
2842rpm = 31%
1869rpm = 24%
2753rpm = 30%
1568rpm = 22%

[Allmachtige]

Wrote stock MAF, entire PE table at 28, and reset fuel trims. Got a nice scan this evening:

LTFT:


Narrowband:


Scan files:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/MAF_s ... 1_PE28.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/MAF_s ... 1_PE28.hpl

I defiantly hit PE mode very easily now, so I did my best to perform slow rolling accelerations and held them as long as possible.

I'm going to run this through Eddie's program right now with the usual 50% fuel trim calculation.

[Allmachtige]

After a week of MAF tuning, I've seen the light:



I'm just about ready for O2 tuning, but wanted second opinions on smoothing out my MAF curve as it transitions from pre-PE to PE mode.

Take a look:


Should I bother? I was thinking of selecting 6125-6875Hz for the "smooth" button magic.

EDIT: I decided a smooth between 6125-7000 was optimal. Please shout if you think I'm mistaken.

[superchargedSSEi]

I don't see any harm in smoothing things when the curve looks as good as it does.

[Allmachtige]

Holy *shoot* this thread just got murdered.

I need to post my findings or this will mess up my documentation:

O2's lean.
KR during WOT runs when engine feels like its crying for fuel (sputter effect).
Paul thinks bad gas.
Aaron thinks its a general lean condition and/or unmetered air.

I replaced the line/fittings for the vacuum line that goes around the supercharger before I bought the scan gauge. Bad injector o-rings? Where else to look?

Going to continue O2 scans and adjustments, but holding off on full WOT runs (only need to fill 140kPa cells to get an idea).

[superchargedSSEi]

It killed my latest post, and the latest scans of yours are gone too...so here's the jist of things...hopefully everyone remembers enough to follow. IIRC you had O2s of 880-890mV when the AFR was logging 10.3-10.5:1 or so.

My thinking is that the O2s not matching the AFR is due to the MAF, not any sort of vacuum leak. If the MAF values are too low (lean...and we know they were from your MAF tuning) then you'll be pulling in more air than the pcm thinks you are, so the pcm won't command a long enough injector pulse to hit the AFR it's going for. It makes sense to me when you consider that the pcm doesn't reference the O2 while in PE mode so it has no way to correct the AFR....and you haven't touched the PE portion of the MAF curve so the stock (low) values are what the pcm is going off of. Feel free to yell if my train of thought is wrong here.

[Allmachtige]

My scan files again for anyone:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct2_start_04.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct2_start_04.hpl

I know what you're saying and yes the PE portion of my MAF curve is stock, however its not really addressed anywhere that we adjust that...or have to. Opentuner wiki says this:

Increase the MAF hz range from 7000-11500... but always feather in those changes. By that I mean that if you (for example) do a 1% increase at the 7000hz and up range, don't forget to do a 0.5 percent increase in the cell just UNDER 7000hz and a 0.25 percent increase at the cell just under that. We do not want to introduce any dips or bumps into the MAF curve!

Righteous. Makes sense. But I'm under the impression that I have 3 other methods at my disposal to solve a lean condition, so are these 3 other methods really that useful..or smart? If what you say is the case, I should resort to adjusting my 7000+Hz in 1% increases until my O2's look good.

[superchargedSSEi]

The other methods do work...but honestly I'm not knowledgeable enough to say which one is best. On my car I used the base PE AFR to get the O2s close, lowered the MAF a smidge to get them consistent throughout the rpm range, then used the PE vs time table to keep the O2s constant during longer runs. I'm sure there were better ways to go about it, but nothing's blown up yet and my narrowband readings are pretty consistent.

[PDXGTP]

Hello.

Wow.. I've been out of this post for a while..

I smooth all the time. I don't believe that the raw data and smoothing is going to perform any different as far as the A$$ dyno can tell.
I think the computer will appreciate a little smoothing.

Made myself laugh..

Anyway.. Try it both ways and you decide.

- and always one more thing...
I try to do my smoothing at the transition to entering PE mode. basically I set my PE mode to 35% to 45% TPS. 14.7 afr for all my part throttles and I decide on something for PE but usually between 11.5 to 11.8 depending on what kind of driving I panned on doing. I'd go 11.8 at the track with race gas mixd to about 96 to 98 octane.

[Allmachtige]

Cool I like the replies. My PE mode starts at 28%, that was decided upon earlier. I might change it down the road at specific points.

So anyway IMPORTANT scans tonight!

First off, I scanned with another revision to the PE Fuel Adder vs RPM vs Time table and decided to tank that idea for now. Why? Well my AFR is looking like total garbage under PE mode and my O2's are not improving much for how many adjustments I've made.

Here are the files from that scan:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct2_start_05.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct2_start_05.hpl


So I pulled over and multiplied all MAF cells from 7000+Hz by 1.01, the cell directly below it by 1.005, the cell below that by 1.0025, and the cell below that by 1.0015. Then I changed my PE Fuel Adder vs RPM vs Time table back to stock. I reset the fuel trims out of habit from when I was tuning the pre-PE MAF curve. So of course I had to drive a good 10 minutes for it to learn, then scanned.

Scan files:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct2_MAF_01.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct2_MAF_01.hpl


O2's on this scan looked just as good, if not better (barely), than after 4 changes to the PE vs RPM vs Time table. Also the AFR looked slightly better than before...slightly as in maybe an average of .2 higher. Now resetting the fuel trims could have had a major impact on this, so tomorrow's scans will help me figure this out more. Even so, I'm going to make another small adjustment to the 7000+Hz cells in the MAF table.

I'd also like to point out something important concerning that feeling of when the car stuttered as though its not getting fuel. You will notice this in all my scan files when the timing and rpm's drop when in a period of steady PE. It looks like it happens when the AFR reaches its low point. I'm rambling, just take a look at this if you can't view my scan files:

[superchargedSSEi]

Looks like the timing tanks right after you shift into 2nd gear (~frame 7052...same as the graph). Torque management? The 1-2 shift looks a tad slow, but that's in comparison to my trans. Are you still running the TM and trans settings from Intense?

[Allmachtige]

Looks like the timing tanks right after you shift into 2nd gear (~frame 7052...same as the graph). Torque management? The 1-2 shift looks a tad slow, but that's in comparison to my trans. Are you still running the TM and trans settings from Intense?

Yes. I even included some changes today to TM I saw in Ken's thread where he lowered the number of disabled Injectors to 0 (abuse mode).