KR elimination Volume 2 (2000 SSEi)

[Allmachtige]

Ok so if I follow the usual steps in tuning, once I get my MAF (pre 7500) all set, should I move on to O2's or first smooth the area around the 7500 transition?

Or...just skip the transition area and come back to it later?

[superchargedSSEi]

I would smooth it out before the O2s, but keep track of the O2/Maf values before and after smoothing. That should give you a ballpark percentage to start with when you tweak the 7500Hz+ area of the curve to get the O2s back up where they belong (should you choose to tune the O2s through MAF modification).

[99ssei]

Ok so if I follow the usual steps in tuning, once I get my MAF (pre 7500) all set, should I move on to O2's or first smooth the area around the 7500 transition?

Or...just skip the transition area and come back to it later?

After you get 7500 and down set, smooth 3 cells to the left and 3 to the right of the transition, then work on the WOT MAF. This may be done in a few ways. I know of at least 3: IFR @ 100 kPA (General - Inj. control rate vs. kPA), PE AFR, and PE timing (add vs. RPM). I'm sure there are many other ways to get your O2's up at WOT.

[superchargedSSEi]

After you get 7500 and down set, smooth 3 cells to the left and 3 to the right of the transition, then work on the WOT MAF. This may be done in a few ways. I know of at least 3: IFR @ 100 kPA (General - Inj. control rate vs. kPA), PE AFR, and PE timing (add vs. RPM). I'm sure there are many other ways to get your O2's up at WOT.

Increasing the PE portion of the MAF curve is the 4th way I know of.

For general reference, these are the ways I know of to change the O2s:

1. Change base PE AFR
2. Change the PE vs. time vs. RPM table (mainly used to stabilize values)
3. Change the 100kPa cell of the IFR table
4. Change the PE portion (7/7.5k-11.5kHz) of the MAF table

If anyone knows any other methods of tuning the AFR feel free to add to the list.

[Allmachtige]

Awesome thanks for the clarification. Methods 1 and 4 seems to be good starting points. Changing the IFR (as Ken did at the track) seems to be something done for race purposes only; that was my first gut feeling.

[99ssei]

Awesome thanks for the clarification. Methods 1 and 4 seems to be good starting points. Changing the IFR (as Ken did at the track) seems to be something done for race purposes only; that was my first gut feeling.

WOT is WOT regardless if your at the track or on the street.

[Allmachtige]

Indeed. I think a little of each method "should" yield decent results.

[Allmachtige]

Check it:



Keep adjusting the MAF (pre 7500)? I could make an adjustment tonight with Eddie's program according to this data. It might be a bit off because I had to fill up on gas, which always makes the LTFT dip into the LOW numbers (-15), so I had to drive around for a bit until they settled again before I started the legit scan.

Files:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/MAF_sept22_04.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/MAF_sept22_04.hpl

[Dirthead Racing]

Check it:
It might be a bit off because I had to fill up on gas, which always makes the LTFT dip into the LOW numbers (-15), so I had to drive around for a bit until they settled again before I started the legit scan.

Wat?

[Foghorn]

Check it:
It might be a bit off because I had to fill up on gas, which always makes the LTFT dip into the LOW numbers (-15), so I had to drive around for a bit until they settled again before I started the legit scan.

Wat?

An active Evap cannister after a fuel fill up won't give you very accurate scan results.

Cheers,

[99ssei]

Check it:
Keep adjusting the MAF (pre 7500)? I could make an adjustment tonight with Eddie's program according to this data. It might be a bit off because I had to fill up on gas, which always makes the LTFT dip into the LOW numbers (-15), so I had to drive around for a bit until they settled again before I started the legit scan.

PERFECT!! Don't change a thing! You're in the +/-3 range! What are you O2's at?

[Allmachtige]

Check it:
Keep adjusting the MAF (pre 7500)? I could make an adjustment tonight with Eddie's program according to this data. It might be a bit off because I had to fill up on gas, which always makes the LTFT dip into the LOW numbers (-15), so I had to drive around for a bit until they settled again before I started the legit scan.

PERFECT!! Don't change a thing! You're in the +/-3 range! What are you O2's at?

Uhhh..check my scan file, I need to get sleep right now and my notebook is in the car.

Because of what Paul said I'm going to scan tomorrow afternoon again with the same MAF just to make sure its all good.

[Dirthead Racing]

Check it:
It might be a bit off because I had to fill up on gas, which always makes the LTFT dip into the LOW numbers (-15), so I had to drive around for a bit until they settled again before I started the legit scan.

Wat?

An active Evap cannister after a fuel fill up won't give you very accurate scan results.

Cheers,

[Allmachtige]

Drive to work this morning was 61F, and all my previous scans have been in the 76-80F range, so I'm most likely going to ignore this scan for MAF tuning purposes...however its still interesting data:

LTFT:


Narrowband:


Files:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/MAF_sept23_04b_am.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/MAF_sept23_04b_am.hpl

I find this scan interesting because it marginally mimics last night's scan. I "think" (please correct me if I'm wrong) that I can correct the slightly lean condition you see at higher kPA by smoothing the -3/+3 cell area where the MAF transitions into PE mode. Or should I shoot for another adjustment to get closer to 0 across the board?

[superchargedSSEi]

What is your PE enable TP% set at? From the scan it looks like ~40%. If it is you might try changing it to something down around 28% as that seems to be about where you hit 100kPA, and the lower trip point should help clear up the lean O2s at the lower engine speeds.

[Allmachtige]

What is your PE enable TP% set at? From the scan it looks like ~40%. If it is you might try changing it to something down around 28% as that seems to be about where you hit 100kPA, and the lower trip point should help clear up the lean O2s at the lower engine speeds.

My stock PE is this:


Funny you should mention this because Eddie's program spits out a log with some interesting data. Take a look at this chunk of good stuff:


Shouldn't I finish tuning the MAF before I adjust the PE table though?

EDIT: The above pictures are from last nights data, here is this mornings:

[Foghorn]

Shouldn't I finish tuning the MAF before I adjust the PE table though?

No. All of the PE Enable TPS% and PE Adder vs TPS% should have been set BEFORE doing any MAF tuning because the PE Enable TPS% will determine the MAF Hz range at which the trims will need to lock at 0.

Cheers,

[Allmachtige]

Shouldn't I finish tuning the MAF before I adjust the PE table though?

No. All of the PE Enable TPS% and PE Adder vs TPS% should have been set BEFORE doing any MAF tuning because the PE Enable TPS% will determine the MAF Hz range at which the trims will need to lock at 0.

Cheers,

Crap, I never read this anywhere. Should I start over with the stock MAF?

[Foghorn]

Shouldn't I finish tuning the MAF before I adjust the PE table though?

No. All of the PE Enable TPS% and PE Adder vs TPS% should have been set BEFORE doing any MAF tuning because the PE Enable TPS% will determine the MAF Hz range at which the trims will need to lock at 0.

Cheers,

Crap, I never read this anywhere. Should I start over with the stock MAF?

Perhaps that would be best. I might suggest you take more time to go from stage to stage in your tuning. You need to understand intimately the rationale for all the changes;

http://wiki.opentuner3800.com/index.php ... _MAF_Table

Cheers,

[Allmachtige]

Yeah I read that guide but I think I'm confused as to the order procedures are performed.

The confusion lies in how I'm talking with people who have previously performed the steps I'm looking at doing and these vital steps I'm missing are being left out in discussion (I cannot blame them though, its assumed I did/know these little things).

Specifically on the 3800 wiki it instructs how the MAF is tuned using Eddie's program and suggests how you can tune each FTC or all at once. Then a few paragraphs later you see this:

"One goal we also need to set during this section is what are the proper settings for your PE to enable? In your scans, if you do several scans in 3rd gear on the highway, and you slowly roll into the throttle, you will see a slow rise in the MAP(kPA) numbers. Note at what throttle settings we GENERALLY hit 100 MAP(kPa). That is the suggested PE Enable point."

My mind is thinking chronologically that you start tuning the MAF and as you do this you can start to adjust the PE table. I'm starting to realize that this boils down to how differently I approach problems compared to how these guides are written.

So here is my plan, PLEASE yell if I'm doing something wrong:

1.) Rewrite stock MAF
2.) Reset trims
3.) Drive 10+ min
4.) Turn car off and back on
5.) Start scan for 30 min
6.) Run my data through Eddie's program and ONLY look at the TPS PE mode suggestions.
7.) Adjust the PE table
8.) Write changes
9.) Reset trims
10.) Scan again after trims are learned
11.) Adjust PE table again if needed
12.) Repeat until ready to start MAF tuning.

I'm not hating on anyone. But I am frustrated with myself as to how often I need to take major back peddles for stupid mistakes. Gas isn't cheap either, but that's out of my control.

But the good news is I'm documenting ALL of my findings, mistakes, procedures, and methods to eventually write up my own tuning guide. Ken's findings are part of this process as well.