Starter is Doing Nothing

White64Goat · Post by **White64Goat** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:02 am

05 GXP with Northstar and my wife had the car yesterday and called me and said the car won't start. Starter not cranking, all lights work ok. Had her shift it to Neutral and try it........nothing. Drove to the car and got in it and turned the ignition switch to run and all the lights came on. Turned key.....nothing. Turned key back to off and then back to start and flicked it about 3 times from run to start and the 3rd time I did that, the starter worked and engine started right up. Does this sound like an ignition switch problem or something else? Thanks

CMNTMXR57 · Post by **CMNTMXR57** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:11 am

Worn starter. The armature is getting hung up on the brushes on the wall of the starter due to wear on the end bushings.

The downside is, you can't get under it and tap the starter wall with a mallet to "jar" it loose, then go up and crank, since the starter is in the valley between cylinder heads, under the intake. The plus side is, it's very well protected there, and isn't exposed to the elements and what not, so it being an issue on an N* is kinda odd. You bumping it multiple times, trying to turn it over, probably broke it loose much the same as tapping on the starter wall.

White64Goat · Post by **White64Goat** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:34 pm

Well.............that was not what I was hoping would be the problem. Average time to replace it? Is there a DIY on here somewhere? Thanks.

CMNTMXR57 · Post by **CMNTMXR57** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:24 pm

I don't have actual book times, but I would wager, for someone with average tools and average mechanical ability, 2 - 3 hours at least. Once you've done it a couple times, obviously the learning curve...

It involved basically removing the upper intake plenum and TB, fuel rails, etc...

Search it on Google, you'll find plenty of info on how to do it. Of course you'll find all the dooshnozzles that love to bash GM complaining about it being a stupid design, but I will counter that while it's a bit more of a PITA to actually replace, you normally SHOULDN'T have to on these motors, because the starter is hidden inside the engine and not exposed to the elements, salt, etc..., like a regular starter is hanging off the side of the engine block.

Kersh · Post by **Kersh** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:17 am

I had to change one on my GXP...then again three weeks later when the brand new starter failed.

The "project" is A LOT easier than you'd believe once you get into it. The engineers actually did a fair job of design in this area.

I don't know the mileage on yours, but I'd suggest replacing the intake coupler as they are known to fail...and it's cheap and easy to do while you have it apart...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb- ... ke/pontiac

White64Goat · Post by **White64Goat** » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:40 pm

I'm assuming that the radiator needs to be drained? YouTube videos not very specific. Does it take a special tool to disconnect the fuel lines or can it be done with regular tools? What are the torque specs for the intake bolts? Thanks as always. Wish I had a service manual.........

skregal · Post by **skregal** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:08 am

There is a tool for the fuel lines, it's cheap.
My radiator was drained when I did mine, so not sure.
Torque specs are 89 in. lbs., and should be tightened
in a pattern from inside to out.

CMNTMXR57 · Post by **CMNTMXR57** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:50 am

Coolant doesn't run through the intake plenum, so no, no bleed down of the cooling system is needed.

Post by **ddalder** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:50 am

Kersh wrote:I had to change one on my GXP...then again three weeks later when the brand new starter failed

What brand of starter did you install? I'm typically an OEM guy, especially with starters and alternators. These just seem to be far more problematic aftermarket or rebuilt than the genuine article. Saving money is okay, but things that are a real pain to replace, just aren't worth doing again to save a few bucks. Obviously, the starter on these cars is pretty straight forward. Now, the alternator is a whole other story. Not "difficult" for anyone accustomed to light or moderate level maintenance, but a lot more time consuming.

White64Goat · Post by **White64Goat** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:03 pm

Thanks to all.

Kersh · Post by **Kersh** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:38 pm

ddalder wrote:
Kersh wrote:I had to change one on my GXP...then again three weeks later when the brand new starter failed
What brand of starter did you install?

It was 3 or 4 years ago, so I don't really remember. I can confirm it was not an OEM.

I believe it was whatever Autozone "quality" replacement was offered at the time...

CMNTMXR57 · Post by **CMNTMXR57** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:57 pm

What you did there... I see it.

White64Goat · Post by **White64Goat** » Tue May 09, 2017 10:14 pm

Haven't gotten around to replacing it yet, but I was at Advance Auto today and asked if they had the starter in stock. and......go figure, their listing has 2 starters listed. One is listed as 'First Production' and the other as '2nd Production'. Does anyone have an idea as to what that means? Have something to do with cars production date? I guess nothings easy any more.......

CMNTMXR57 · Post by **CMNTMXR57** » Tue May 09, 2017 11:11 pm

GM only lists one part# 10465558

Whatever one that references to at Advance. Otherwise, I would take the 2nd production. Usually it supercedes a previous version.

Post by **ddalder** » Thu May 11, 2017 3:41 am

There's a first design and second design for the engine wiring harness. The connector for a sub-harness going to the starter is different, but this has nothing to do with your situation since the harness is not replaced with the starter. This starter fits various model years of the Cadillac Deville, Seville, SRX, STS XLR and of course, the Bonneville GXP. That could be the typical auto parts store generic flag for the item since it may refer to first or second design in one of those other vehicles. Their catalogues tend to suck at the best of times.

Having said all this, it's exactly the reason why GM Parts staff always as the VIN of YOUR vehicle when looking up parts. Their system filters correctly based on that.

CMNTMXR57 · Post by **CMNTMXR57** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:48 am

For a pretty standardized vehicle like a Bonneville, an owner shouldn't have to resort to that unfortunately.

I get if you have a truck, where there are so many options, especially driveline/axles/suspension where we'd only look stuff up by VIN. But on a Bonneville, where you either have a 3800 V6 or a Northstar V8, it shouldn't matter. But this is GM, where 4 identical bolts can each have their own part number, so...

White64Goat · Post by **White64Goat** » Mon May 15, 2017 6:16 pm

Thanks

White64Goat · Post by **White64Goat** » Tue May 23, 2017 5:54 pm

Just starting to dis-assemble and it started to rain (my luck all the time). Does the throttle body need to come off to access the 3 bolts behind there (seen in a youtube video) or does the intake plenum come apart where (Kersh) above said to buy the rubber piece? I see a large hose clamp type clamp around the rubber seal and wondered if the intake plenum separates from the throttle body at that point and I don't have to mess with the TB? I also assume that the fuel rails need to come off in order to access that intake bolt that is under the small vacuum pot that is closest to the driver?

So far I have the metal water crossover line off, the front injector wires disconnected and a couple of vacuum lines and breather lines to the valve covers. don't want to pull the TB unless I have to. Thanks

Kersh · Post by **Kersh** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:25 am

It's been a while since I messed with a N*, but If I remember correctly, the aluminum casting of the block is visible BETWEEN the throttle body and the rubber intake coupler. The 3 bolts holding the throttle body go THROUGH the casting and thread into the metal backside of the coupler. You should be able to remove the 3 bolts (so the coupler can be removed with the intake), but leave the T.B. in location with all of its connections.

White64Goat · Post by **White64Goat** » Wed May 24, 2017 5:14 pm

Exactly what I did and it worked out fine. Wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be and it's all back together.............but...........starter is just clicking once and no crank. All dash lights come on and I have my battery charger hooked up to it now because it was almost dead when I went to pull the car into the driveway yesterday although I did get it to start yesterday after charging it for about 15 minutes. I read either on here or another forum that this car has a 'safety' (if you can call it that) feature that the car won't crank if the battery is below a certain point?? Maybe my battery is shot, waiting for the charger to run a while and see if the charging needle drops below the 9.75 amps it's charging at and has been for the better part of 90 minutes. I DO NOT want to take it back apart.........

P.S. The Dorman brand rubber intake coupler comes with the intake plenum seals and they suck. Poor fitting and won't stay in the grooves and as soon as you flip the intake over, the seal(s) start falling out. Fortunately, I bought the Fel-Pro ones also and they work just like factory ones.

Update: battery charger dropped down to 7 amps and car started right up!!

Going to leave charger on for a while to top off the battery and see what transpires next.

Update 2: Battery had 12.62 volts this morning after taking the charger off last night, so, hopefully all is well. Now I have to fix power steering leak.

PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

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