1998 Bonn L36 Intake, Head, or worse problems? pics included

[Taurus1979]

We did go ahead and order an FPR but I want to try that test for a longer amount of time as suggested. The car ran really great today up until the old problem reared it's ugly head. This is an issue we've been chasing since buying the car about a year ago. We really thought the manifold leaking coolant was the issue but apparently it isn't. It's hard to describe and extremely intermittent.

From a dead stop, applying the gas, it will sometimes hiccup 3 times before it finally goes. It's not like a typical hesitation or loss of power. It's very loud, scares the crap out of you, and even the change in the cup holder, or butts in the ashtray, will fly out. It's pretty impossible to duplicate. It either does it when it wants or it won't. It doesn't seem to matter if the car is warm or not. No codes. No warning lights. Doesn't really matter how hard or light you apply the gas. The only consistent thing is that it only happens when you try to go from a complete stop. It never does this any other time. It can go weeks or months without doing it, which is why we always think we've solved the problem.

It's very hard to describe but it feels like as if the tires were being prevented from moving, then there's a very very loud thud thud thud, then it just goes just fine. It literally lasts for like 3 seconds, never any longer never any shorter. It did this only one time while driving today, at a stop light. I was probably at 30 stop lights and a few stop signs, but it did it only that one time. Not sure if fuel pressure regulators could cause this but I sure hope so. The vacuum line did smell like fuel again.

I would love to be able to catch this on video but you just can't predict it. Other than that it drove very nice at various speeds. All fluids were normal and for the first time since pulling the motor, the oil looks and smells very clean. Of course we did 3 changes in a row on it thus far since putting the motor back in. I think we are just going to park it until we get the FPR in the mail. We may do some more tests in the mean time but only at idle. It's not worth possibly damaging anything at this point. We've put a lot into it.

[MKMike]

With a fuel smell in the vacuum line, it's a safe bet that the FPR has gone bad but I would also replace the fuel filter, unless you already have done so.
After the new FPR is installed, check the fuel pressure.
The fuel pump may also be failing.
Some good videos on fuel pressure testing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oXLUqE4Sf0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyEPOeQB0Zg

[Taurus1979]

Our FPR will be here tomorrow. Excited to get it and re do tests. We did replace the filter but that was before pulling the motor. The fuel that came out of it was really dirty. We were thinking it may come down to the pump. If so we will probably just replace the filter again too. There is about a 2 ft section of line that is really rusty as well which makes that filter a real B to get off lol. Makes me wonder if the car had sat in some water at one point. Its just this one area that's rusty. Probably replace that too I guess. lol

[Taurus1979]

The new FPR was installed today while my husband was on a break from work so we could only do brief tests. There was some differences in results. That FPR was a pita for him to get on. Specifically that metal ring deal. Below is a pic of the old and new one. Notice that the tube that the vacuum line goes on is a different in size. The ACDelco one is skinnier. Small enough that my husband had to re-do the elbow fitting with some random spare parts he had. So to anyone else who orders one of these be aware, it is an aftermarket part. The exact part name and number is "ACDelco 217-3296 Professional".



The KOEO didn't really change, if anything it dropped a couple psi, 33 and it was 35 the other day.

KOER did increase! From 42 the other day, to 46

Pulling the vacuum line only raised pressure to 48. Interestingly I do not recall hearing the hiss we have heard before. Putting his thumb over the hole did not change the reading.

After shutting the engine off pressure continued to climb slowly to 50 psi. Is that normal? Before it would just remain at the idle pressure.

We really need to perform a much longer test on each area I believe. We only spent about 2 mins on each of the above but we were in a pinch for time. Also, the car hasn't been started since Sunday. Even though I did prime it 3x perhaps we need to drive a bit and then do more thorough tests. Seems like now we also might need to address the vacuum as well. Guess I will be you-tubing this LOL. My husband has a vacuum gauge but we aren't sure how or what to test with it.

I have been afraid to drive the car much but I guess I really need to stop worrying about it. Can't baby it forever. So, once we do some driving I will update with better results. Hopefully that jerking thing is solved. Guess we will find out soon.

[Taurus1979]

Wow she drove so smooth yesterday evening! Made several stops at stores requiring both in town and highway driving. She just pops right off with barely a turn of the key! Lots of power, no jerking, and very quiet! Even had to maneuver around some guy in a big old pick up truck who for some reason rolled right out into traffic across all four lanes without any lights on. I was very happy with the way the car handled that situation. I am also glad my husband unplugged all the ABS WSS because the light has always been on and I really prefer manual braking. That was a very close call for about 4 or 5 different cars. I was able to weave my way through quickly, ended up way ahead of the whole situation, and avoided being hit.

We do have a leak in the exhaust. The one with the metal donut. We did receive a new metal donut in the head gasket kit. My husband said he had a hard time getting a tight fit with it. It doesn't seem severe but you can hear it a whistle a bit under heavy accel. It sounds like I have a turbo booster. LOL

Anyhow, today will be the real test. I work downtown and with all the stop lights this is where the jerking usually would happen. We plan to re do the fuel pressure tests this evening after a typical day of driving.

[MKMike]

Hope your problems have been resolved.
Let us know.

[Taurus1979]

I think some issues have been resolved. I am confident the intake and head issues are resolved but as for the "worse" part ... not so lucky. Hopefully we are getting close though.

So after a few days of normal driving we repeated the pressure tests. The car has stopped the jerking upon acceleration from a complete stop. Unfortunately, after a few days of driving great, I started to get hard starts only when warm, followed by a strong fuel smell. We did replace the filter and a leaking line from the filter to the pump with the Dorman kit. I guess that extra little boost in fuel pressure, combined with replacing that bad FPR, caused more leaks to become apparent.

My gawd these lines look like Slim Jim beef sticks. Just awful but its only for a certain section; unfortunatley a long one. Roughly it's probably about 15 ft of line, combining all 3. The lines closer to the front of the car aren't rusty at all.

Here are the fuel pressure test results that we took after replacing the FPR but before we started smelling fuel and noticed the second leak.


Key on engine off and key on engine running (15 mins), also pulling the vaccum line off the FPR really has no to little effect, about a 1-2 psi increase is all.



These images are right after shutting the car off and taking the key out of the ignition. The psi rises a bit for approx. 2 mins then holds at 52 psi.



It then takes over an hour for the pressure to leak down to 10 psi



Note that the 30 minute mark the psi still reads about 24 psi, this is about the time frame where I was getting the hard starts. The engine would rev itself way up to about 2500 rpms and then it would either level itself out within a few seconds or it would stall. It would re start just fine after that and drive normally.

Is it possible the leak is causing the pressure issue and not the pump? We are running out of funds to throw at this beast so I hope we can hold off on a pump until at least spring. We also have an F150 that we've been repairing. Pretty sure we are Rock Auto and Advance's best customer the past couple months. This thing is just one thing after another. It's very frustrtaing to say the least. It drives sooo good now, when it drives. Not safe to drive it now but we are looking at options we have for the lines. GM parts direct says some of these lines are discontinued and we can't afford dealer lines anyway. Looking at steel, aluminum, and nylon options. My husband wants to do all 3 lines because we suspect fixing one will just cause another leak elsewhere. He also thinks that rust may be clogging things up.

Here is the line that gets wet with fuel, it evaporates rather quickly and seems to only leak while driving and maybe briefly right after car is shut off. I took this pic within a few minutes of shutting off. It looks to have broken free from one of the clips as well.



Here is a few pics taken a few hours after it had been shut off. These lines are just horrible. We do have a lot of harsh conditions here in Iowa but I really feel like this area of the car had been sitting in some water for some time or something. It even looks like we are maybe missing some shield or something? See the rusty protrusion that sort of hangs down (3rd pic) and looks to be broken off... rusted away.. not sure what, if anything goes there. I have never seen this bad of rust, not even in my Fords!!! Haha



Any tips on replacing these lines is extremely appreciated. We do have the necessary tools to do the bending and flaring if we go with some type of metal line. I have read conflicting experiences with using other materials but I am not ruling any out at this point. Just looking for something that is safe and will withstand fluctuation of outside temps, lots of hills, pot holes, and salt. Our roads really suck here in Iowa. We have to travel on a combination of ashpalt, dirt, and gravel. We do plan to try and rig up some type of shield to protect whatever we install.

[Taurus1979]

So after a lot of research it seems pre-bent lines are probably the best way to go. Learning that the 3 lines are all different sizes is what brought me to this conclusion. That would be three different rolls of un-shaped & un-flared material, plus all connections, and whatever we break along the way.

GM does not make this fuel assembly anymore, they only make one of the 3 lines. I found a pre-bent kit on Ebay through SS Tubes (Fine Lines). I also went direct to their web site and found it would be $36 cheaper to go the Ebay route.

Then I found a post in the forum here. I can only assume this poster is talking about the same lines I am about to purchase. I can't tell though, if the problem that kept happening was actually the product she received or the mechanic who installed the product (3x). Either way, they seemed to provide good customer service so maybe worth it in the long run. My biggest fear is incorrect bends but the poster didn't mention that as an issue at all, just the rubber hose ends. http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... hilit=fuel line

Anyone familiar with SS Tubes/Fine Lines as a supplier? This is literally the ONLY place I can even find these parts. We really don't want to shell out another $204 grrrr.... but I digress.

[MKMike]

It's the wintertime road salts that eat away the brake lines, fuel lines, frame and subframe of the car, at the very least.
If your leak is on the fuel supply line, then it is the cause of the pressure drop, which in turn causes the hard starting due to a lack of fuel.
It would also limit the fuel pressure going to the engine while the car is running.
Judging by the pictures, it would have started leaking soon anyway.

Your husband is right that replacing just one section , other than temporarily, isn't the best idea.
Other sections can start to leak.
On my car, I bought some parts from Amazon (Prime shipping) , so I could use the car and not have gasoline leaking into my driveway.

There's no missing shield.
That's just an area where the pinch weld has rusted away.
I think you'll be ok with SS Tubes/Fine Lines.
Maxi426 had mentioned he didn't have a problem with their products.
It may have just been a defective batch of hose and I doubt they continued to use it.
If their lines generally had high failure rates, you'd likely see negative feedback on Ebay and bad reviews on Amazon and elsewhere.

Just so you're aware, the lines can leak from the ends, too because they use o rings to seal.
There's a seller on Ebay who sells the special fuel and heat rated o rings in bulk for a fraction of the cost of the brand name o rings. (less than $7 shipped for 50) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Viton-Rubber-Or ... 884058211?
The sizes are 012 and 011, based on the post from agrazela here
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... 0o%20rings.
They're good to have on hand.

You have other options, too.
You could just buy the lengths of metal line that you need and use compression fittings (Rockauto sells them cheapest) to connect the metal lines to any nylon lines

[Taurus1979]

Thanks MKMike!

I think we are definitely going to take a better look over the weekend and measure out the actual amount of line that is rusted and try to pin point the leak for sure. It could be the line itself or the O-rings as you stated and it could be a leak that's running down. I think it's important for us to know so we can make sure we get the entire problem solved.

We are going to visit the U pull-it place as well. I know this is a crap shoot but they do get cars in everyday. We may just get lucky enough to find one that has had the fuel line replaced and isn't rusty. It will also give my husband a chance to see exactly how tricky this system is to install. We are going to pick up a set of flare nut wrenches as a friend has suggested this would make things a bit easier.

I did also read somewhere in here that it was not possible to install the entire fuel line assembly without a lift and the guy had to cut his new lines to get them in. We definitely don't have a lift and would really hate to cut into a brand new $200 part. The rough estimate we got from a local mechanic was around $500. This is a guy we trust a lot so I believe it's probably a fair price but we are not able to do that. That would be to supply the lines and install. We live in a smaller town so not a lot of competition around here.

However we get er' done I will take pics for sure.

[Taurus1979]

So, this is the most recent update. Last weekend my husband decided to throw a quick fix at this fuel leak. He did locate the leak to a pinhole. He also sanded off some of the rust and was surprised to find a clean smooth metal surface. So he felt the rust isn't all the way through.

Please note, that I do not really agree with this "band-aid". I feel it's ok if you are like stuck on the side of the road and you just need to get home but he really thinks I am going to get through winter like this? Apparently, he was told this was perfectly ok to repair a fuel leak this way.

This crap scares me. Everytime I go over a speed bump, hit a pot hole, RR tracks... I squeeze the steering wheel and wince. It took a couple adjustments of the clamp to get it on tight enough and yes that is a zip tie.



So once he was done he proclaimed, "it's fixed!". I was like... I will be the judge of that. He was hesitant to do the fuel pressure test. I said why? If it's "fixed" then no worries right? And technically, our KOEO test should be normal. Well, it wasn't. It did increase by exactly one psi yielding a result of 33 psi. KOER didn't change at all but then again that one has always been normal at 42 psi.

The jerking thing happened again when I was about to turn left onto a street where parked cars were blocking my view of oncoming traffic. So I got onto it a bit and lo and behold it did it. I guess it's not really a jerk. It really feels like its a tire behing held back or something along those lines. It does this skidding thing like it's trying to gain traction but its loud and shakes the car. Skids three times then she goes. I would compare it driving a rear while drive car. That's EXACTLY what it feels like. Only did it once all week long. I guess I can live with that but this fuel thing, Idk. I don't think it's related but I guess I can't 100% rule it out. I just hope that it doesn't make my hose pop off one of these times.
YOBO!!! You only blow up once!

We also replaced the alternator with a new Remy. I noticed my head lights are brighter, seems to have more power, and the interior lighting is brighter as well. Also ordered a new belt, Continental elite (formerly known as Goodyear). Been chasing this chirp since we put the motor back in and since we used the belt that had been soaked with coolant before and been on and off multiple times, hoping a nice new one with the gatorback pattern will solve this chirp. It's intermittent, seems to be affected by the cooler temps outside, increases with acceleration, and stops when you spray it with water.

As always, I appreciate your responses. I don't want to come down on my hubby too hard. I know he means well but I welcome any good arguments as to why this rubber band aid is dangerous so I can let him read them. Maybe I am wrong and just paranoid? It may be ok if you live in a snow free area with perfect roads but we sure do not. I just feel like the temps, the deep snow, and all the road hazards are going to make this band aid fail. I get that he wants it to hold out until spring but I just see it as not very likely.

[MKMike]

I wouldn't be comfortable with that as it is now.
I hope that he used high pressure fuel hose. Other hoses will degrade when exposed to gasoline or burst from the high pressure.
The rubber hose repairs that I've seen were done with high pressure fuel hose AND there were 2 clamps on each end of the repair.
As for the ziptie, I'd at least have added a section of larger diameter hose to surround the fuel hose and close the gap between lines to reduce friction and strain on the fuel hose.
He could step it up by redoing it with a piece of metal fuel line and compression fittings.
That way he could also get the line back into the bracket
Rockauto looks like the cheapest source for the fittings.

Not sure what's going on with the drivability issue.
Diagnosis is so much easier when you're actually driving the car and checking things out.
The description, "Skids three times then she goes." doesn't really narrow things down for me.
Is it just a hesitation and the car shudders?
A wheel actually scraping along the asphalt instead of turning?
Does it only happen while making a turn?
Could be an issue with fuel (low pressure or volume), a sensor, ignition (bad plug, wire or coil), suspension (cv joint, wheel bearing, subframe shifting) or maybe even transmission.
I suspect that the odd KOEO pressure is some trapped air in the gauge.

The 2 things I'd do first are to check for any computer codes and retest fuel pressure to include a test of pressure at a higher rpm and a volume test.

As an older vehicle, there's the possibility that the strainer/filter on the fuel pump itself is getting clogged or the pump is wearing out.

This fuel testing article is very thorough and will help your husband to be sure the fuel system is capable of delivering the amount of fuel the engine needs at all times.
http://www.underhoodservice.com/diagnos ... me-checks/

[SGxTOKEN]

Hello I hope you don't mind me adding you as a friend here in the club. I've been having the exact same problem as you so much so that I'm not sure if my better half had been posting while I'm reading. Lol just kidding she leaves this stuff to me the only thing she asks me about cars is which one is ready for driving, and what parts, part numbers she canpick up for me today. She is a horse trainer by trade. I first come across your post last month and after I finally posted was given a thread to your post. At first I didn't want to think I had those problems being that I was chasing a generic cel code p0102. The first time I read it it was so well put together with and written that I did read it. R.W. problem distracted me and I didn't friend you at that time, really wish I had just so I could follow your progress.
It's clear you two are quite capable, since I was chasing electronic sensors and testing and replacing bad wires/sensors everyday I wasn't able to read the post about fuel pressure, I'm also not sure if you have been able to resolve those issues.
I noticed the other night when replacing the engine cover by chance that the new oil resting in the head had a tent of green to it. Being me I instantly knew that I had a U&L intake issue Thanks to your post.
If you have made no progress from your last post you've just finished replacement of fuel lines have a new fpr and are still having lunging problem with occasional stalling. As of yet I haven't gone over to gf's uncles garage and tested my pressure readings. The thing is our problems are as you put it unpredictable.So if you haven't solved yours I hope you would be willing to work together.
First thing I want to tell you is since your fuel lines where leaking that means that there is a strong possibility that rust particles have gotten into your fuel lines and may be clogging your injectors.
My question for you is when the car starts lunging did you notice a voltage drop if so is it below 7 volts. I also want you to know that I haven't changed out the intake gaskets yet I checked it closely and is only in the beginning stages of failure and I want to diagnose the cause of the lunging.
Second question when you put key in run position eo does your pump make a buzzing sound then stop once you reach Max fp. Whereas this is completely normal over time it gets louder but it does this so gradually that you think it's operating fine. If you have already replaced it was this true before change out. Mine had done this and the only reason I came to this conclusion was I now can hear it humming when it's running, before I could not. Also the reason I think it's the fuel pump and filter even though they look good at idle ,koeo, even under load only sometimes isn't that they may be bad, pump only, if you can change the fuel filter with the oil. I'm thinking that we both have a wire grounding out causing a temporary short to either the fuel relay or the pump itself.I'm thinking this because of what you said and dismissed about the hit wire you had to the trunk latch. My trunk latch on the door quit working but as I get closer getting the problem fixed from time to time the cel is off but will come back on after "an event". Two more question and I've got to get to work or I'll never have the money to do what I intend to do. Essentially what you've done. Has your vat system been bypassed with resistors under the steering wheel leading away from the 40 pin. Two wires inside an orange one. Please be extra careful not to jump the airbag writes can't remember if they are orange or white. I do remember that they are the same color but if this has been done you can't miss it. Oh yeah sorry one more question does your ac/heater blower motor function properly. From lowest setting to highest I.e. Mine stops working if I put it to the highest setting and has recently started being ify at the third position. Just so you know both my trunk latch and heater blower issues existed prior to bypass of vats.
If you have resolved your issue congratulations if you haven't I hope you would be willing to work together to fix this. I'm convinced that our problems line in failing electrical issues. I don't mind fixing the engine, gaskets get old they fail. Ok. I won't be so cool about it if our problems is caused by the vats,if it is there are two permanent, until next failure, fixes one is replacing pcm, vats fuel pump shut down chip and a new ignition, $1000. The other is a new device that bypasses them forever, don't know the price because they require you to go to add cart. By the time I got to that point I was pretty hot that any company would install a program into there product that would destroy it. Sorry this is so long but I wanted to make sure you guys are caught up with what I've done and what's next for me. Thank you again for any help you can give and if anything I have posted here helps you, you are welcome.

[Taurus1979]

Yes, I have noticed strange dips in the battery gauge when it has problems starting after being driven a while and it's still warm. The fuel pump does seem to be getting louder during the priming process. It buzzes for a couple seconds then stops before starting it. Then, I don't hear it all inside the car while it's running. But I do hear it if it's running and I am standing outside the car and to the rear. Very high pitch sound, a bit different than the priming noise.

I also have had a suspicion that the weird wire running between the trunk latch and into the fuel pump fuse slot has something to do with some of our issues. I don't know what the previous owner was trying to do here but personally I have never had any issues with the trunk latch. I almost want to take that wire out and see what happens. Think we will do that tomorrow.

Yes, We have soldered in resistors in the wire that comes out of the steering column. Funny you mention that. The VATS problem was the thing that went wrong right before ALL these other issues.

Lately, the oil pressure looks to be dangerously low but causes no issues other than it doesn't like to start when its warm. Notably, the battery gauge reads only about 10 when this occurs but there is no indication of power loss.So we haven't been driving this past week.

The blower is a bit noisy like a chirpy noise but we are also having a chirpy belt which we just got in the mail so I will let you know if that resolves it. The blower noise gets faster the higher you have it set. Otherwise it works fine. The battery gauge doesn't seem affected at all when you use accessories. It did before we replaced the alternator and battery, which we did recently.

Our CEL has been off ever since we replaced the intake plenum and all the gaskets on the motor. Sometimes I wish it was on so I could get a clue. I have been figuring out how to use the live data feature on our scanner. I am just not sure how to interpret the data. It also doesn't store the data so it's hard when I am alone. The best I can do is put it on after driving and it still gives me certain information.

We are going to work on the car some more tomorrow. We did also receive our oil pressure sensor in the mail. I am also going to be doing more with our multi-meter. I think the root of the intermittent issues is wiring. We have been really limited with time lately.

As far as the "skidding" 3 times... I know it's so hard to describe! It's unlike any type of hesitation I have experienced before. It really does feel like what a rear wheel drive car does when you are ... say on a gravel road and trying to gain momentum from a stop. It feels like the tire skips. I am sorry for the lack of being able to describe it better. Yes, I would say it does make the car shudder, violently. Everything flies out of the ashtray when it happens. It's so random that it scares you so I never think to look at gauges to see what they are doing. I will try to do this when it does it again. It literally only does it for 3 seconds. It does seem to happen only if you are trying to go from a complete stop, at an incline, even slightly, like in a dip. Usually it happens when going straight but this time I was turning left but also in a bad patch of asphalt that was big dip. Every time I try to make it happen, it won't do it.

I appreciate the responses!

[SGxTOKEN]

Hello glad to hear from you. I have had to put my car in hold while I rebuild the Ford, had gasket went out,
I am starting to think that it's not the fuel pump but the Vats, I read somewhere that after a while the second step in the system starts to fail I have not had the time to learn the whole system yet. After a while it"learns"that the key really is not in the ignition. So pcm will fry the relay, when you change the relay without changing the the ignition the pcm will then fry itself. From the little bit of research I've done on it this is the easiest way to describe it.
I'm not 100% sure that's the problem. I know that the Vats system can only be fooled for so long, didn't know this when I"fooled" it. The wire from your hot box to pump looking at it I can only guess that the previous owner had already tried the second step in bypassing the vats. The relay is tired into the fuel relay. I don't want to scare you but if in right the next step in the cars anti theft defense is to fry the "brain". I am sorry I can't remember the Web site that makes the kit that completely removes the program from the cars pcm.
If it's not this and believe me I want it to be anything else. Then it's the fuel pump and filter. Hang in there for a few more days I'm really busy with the Ford. We have 6 vehicles and right now only the mkz and the Ranger are working right. Both of those cars are also used by her parents. If I do anything wrong with her Taurus I won't hear the end of it. Since the antifreeze got in the oil I have to replace the bearings, didn't plan for this.
We are definitely having the same problem of that I'm certain.
Try doing this start the car turn on everything put as much of an electrical load on the car as possible radio,leave door open, ac/heater blower in high. Let the car idle use your scanner to monitor real time data. Go online and search for information about the one you use, so you can compare your readings to vehicles tolerance levels. It may take a few minutes wait until even the radiator fans kick on. You should be able to make the car stall out. When your driving and it bucks is because for a split second it shuts off.
There's only two real fixes for the vats failure replacement by dealership, $1000 and up or that kit which I never got a price for.
Watch your scanner to see what drops below tolerance levels just prior to it stalling. I don't have a scanner and every time I use it at OReilly the want it back before I can finish. They act like I shouldn't need it for more than 5 minutes. Most of them don't have a clue how to use it so they think it's just for reading codes and that shouldn't take very long. I'm trying to figure out how to connect my car to a lap top so I can see what I can do with pcm. Their might be a way to remove the vats program from pcm.
I hope that I am wrong because I really don't want to spend that much money. Rebuilding the engine and replacement of VATS is a nice down payment on a new car. Up side is a like a challenge, sorry for ant type "o's" I'm still waking up.

[Taurus1979]

SGxTOKEN,

Too funny we've been busy with our Ford too. Thank gawd just simple stuff and winter prep. We had to put the Bonne aside for a while. We ordered a new oil pressure sender thinking maybe it was a culprit for the non-starting when warm issue but we cannot get that thing out to change it. Even bought the 27 mm deep socket but it doesn't go on all the way. I really don't think that's it anyway.

We did drive it a bit today for the first time in a couple weeks. Started like a champ, always does when cold. But like always, once she is up to operating temp and been driven for about an hour or so, oil pressure goes low, not low enough to stall or trigger an alarm, just real low. Doesn't seem to affect drivability at all, only seems to affect a re-start if you try within an hour. I did also notice the oil pressure gauge seems to be effected by turning the steering wheel to the left, it will dip down. So freakin' odd. Oil pressure stays around 30-40 as long as gas is engaged.

I am convinced it's either fuel related and/or electrical, or rather some weird combination. Pretty much like you stated. And it is true, absolutely none of our issues started until VATS happened. For now, I am only going to drive it when I can time my trip to be short. Kinda a big PITA! LOL

I did see that kit you mentioned that permanently bypasses VATS when I was researching it a few months ago. Like you said, I had to go through the buying process to see the price so I never went that far and we opted for the quick fix of soldering in matching resistance.

As we move along I will continue to update when I can. My husband told me go ahead and use up the gas I have and he will think about changing the pump but I (nor he) is really convinced that is the issue. We did change the filter, which gave us no change oh yea except for leaking lines, which we replaced too.

I realize the KOEO pressure is low but I just feel like it's being inhibited by something else, something electrical. Because otherwise it drives fine and has normal fuel pressure while running and leak down takes over an hour... kind of interesting since that's also how long you must wait to get a successful start when warm. So frustratingly weird! No other words to describe it!

Thanks for your response, much appreciated!

PS. my passenger today asked me if I smelled a burning rubber like smell. This was while the car was warm and we had been driving for about an hour. I didn't smell it, but that seems like a possible electrical smell to me. The oil and all fluids are normal and clean.

[Taurus1979]

So after driving again this evening I got a chance to run a scan after driving. Below is the video I made of the results. Seems like it will take me some research to learn if these are within normal ranges, this is quite a bit over my head but I will try as always.

If anything jumps out to anyone, as way off normal range, please let me know. Thanks!

I know the quality is shotty, sorry. It's sort of hard for me doing this by myself, in the dark, and trying to pay attention. lol

https://youtu.be/9-A02UkCcMk

[Taurus1979]

So I just wanted to update this thread. We have not been able to work on the Bonne because our only other vehicle (a 99 Ford F150) took a crap. Interestingly, it died pretty much the same way, just not slowly. I am pretty convinced our problem with both cars is the fuel pump assembly. The truck has 0 psi and the Bonne had 30-35 psi KOEO.

Both cars get the same gas from the same place religiously. We are choosing to do the truck first since the lines are all in good shape. We already got the tank out, the pump looks to have been replaced right before we got the truck, which is why the lines look new. We ordered parts so if this solves the problem with the truck then I will be 100% confident that the Bonne will be the same. In that case, we will have to buy new lines, which I found and will have the same work done but probably by a shop. Truck fuel pumps are a bit easier to do in the driveway. lol

I will update here when we get the work done on the Bonne but it won't be for at least a month.

Moral of this story so far is, BE AWARE WHERE YOU BUY YOUR FUEL FROM! Not all gas is equal.

[MKMike]

Thanks for the update.
Sorry to hear your car and truck are both down.
Dropping the gas tank is truly a pain.
If you can jack the rear up enough to get the wheels supported by ramps, it makes the job somewhat better.
On some cars, people cut their own access panel into the sheet metal.
IDK if anyone here has done this to their Bonneville.