Getting a Bonneville SSEi as first car, I have questions.

[CrazyCalvinWilliams]

I'm 15, and I've always been a car nut. I always love working on cars and I know engines inside and out. I have been saving my allowance toward a car and I am planning to get a 2001 Bonneville SSEi. I've seen them before and I know a lot about them, for example, they have a supercharger and the 3800 V6 engine.

Anyways, today I downloaded the owners manual to the car to "study" a bit and I was surprised when I came across "Car requires 91 octane or higher."

Do I HAVE to run 91 octane, or can I use 87? I won't really be too hard on the car at all and it'll pretty much be my daily driver to and from school all week. For average driving use could such as this, can I run 87 or not?

Thanks,
Calvin

[MKMike]

Welcome to the forum.
You're smart to ask questions before getting a car.

There have been a number of discussions about fuel and the consensus is that the risk of engine damage, even when babying the car, is too high .
That's just the nature of supercharged engines.
One discussion here:
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... as#p438606

One good read is this one http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... c1014.html

Idon't want to discourage you, since most cars have issues, but if you're not already aware of it, you will have to replace the lower intake manifold gaskets, unless it was already done. (A well known problem on a number of GM, Ford and Chrysler engines.)
Doing it yourself isn't difficult or all that expensive, but it is time consuming.
When shopping for an SSEi, remove the plastic engine cover and look for any puddles of coolant on the top of the intake manifold. That's the first place leaking intake gaskets will show.
If the seller claims to have had the lower intake gaskets replaced, you can verify it by looking for metal gaskets, rather than the original black plastic ones.
They're visible from the driver's side end of the manifold.

This sticky thread has plenty of good info and any problems you find with a car can be used to get the price down.
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... 25362.html

When it does come time to shop for a car, I've found that the owners have always shampooed the carpets and used air fresheners to disguise the fact that the sunroof leaks and sometimes door seals, etc. leak---things you can cheaply and easily fix, since you enjoy working on cars---but which can certainly be used to get the price down.

It's the features and comfort of the Bonneville SSEi , plus the power, that I like.

[CrazyCalvinWilliams]

It's the features and comfort of the Bonneville SSEi , plus the power, that I like.

I read all those threads above and I knew about the intake gasket thing as well. Thanks for the additional info. I also like the Bonnevilles for those same reasons, and also because even an SSEi goes for around $6k used. My main concern is that being that I'm a student, being able to afford fuel for the dang thing because I like to pay for my own stuff when I'm able to.

Could I run 87 or 89 full-time? Because honestly the only heavy throttle the car will get will be when I rev it in the school parking lot to be "that guy" or the occasional drag race on the weekend.

[CrazyCalvinWilliams]

I mean if I absolutely have to I'll run 91 but if I can use 87 would it be worth the money saved?

[Benvw99]

i am picking this up just from context, as i have never owned a 3.8 sc, just a 3.8 na. it sounds like it isnt worth running 87. i dont think it would cause immediate issues, but in the future it might cause some. like i said though just my guess, i dont have experience.

[djdani3l10]

deff go with the bonneville, im 18 and i love my bonnie, although its not the most attractive car (in the eyes of every other student) i love it, shes got power, room, and perfect for camping.

[CrazyCalvinWilliams]

deff go with the bonneville, im 18 and i love my bonnie, although its not the most attractive car (in the eyes of every other student) i love it, shes got power, room, and perfect for camping.

I'm also planning to get a 2002 Trans-Am WS6 once I get the money for one. My dad used to have one but we sold it awhile ago and I miss that car and I want a WS6 of my own now too. I know everything about those LS1s because I spent so much time around that car when I was little.

I also love station wagons and I'm a member over at LS1tech and GM Longroofs

[nos4blood70]

Welcome.

Premium is required in L67 (supercharged) cars.

[RJolly87]

Quite honestly, consider premium fuel one of the costs that comes with a supercharged car.

If you are so concerned with fuel costs that you see it necessary to try and save $5 per tank of gas, then the supercharged variants are not something you should be looking at.

And in answer to your question, yes, many have got away with running 87 octane for a very long time. The computer is set up such that it will try and protect the engine constantly. The ultimate result however is even worse fuel mileage, that usually ends up negating the cost savings over premium fuel anyway.

Now you are in a position to make a choice to best suit your needs. The NA version usually gets better fuel mileage, and you can use all of the power all of the time even on 87 octane without fear. You can find some pretty nicely optioned SLE's for decent prices, because most like to go for the supercharged version. Yes the SC version has more power, and a couple more toys sometimes, it burns more fuel, and requires premium.

So:
NA: Cheaper to run
SC: Loads of fun

[MKMike]

x2 RJolly87's post

Could I run 87 or 89 full-time? Because honestly the only heavy throttle the car will get will be when I rev it in the school parking lot to be "that guy" or the occasional drag race on the weekend.

Realistically, no.
Especially when you forget which octane the car is running on and rev the engine or decide to race.
Lower octanes w/superchargers really does blow engines.

What's the price difference between the 87 and 93? 30 cents per gallon?
Using a tank a week, maybe it's an extra 6 bucks or $312 in a year.
Now, factor in the lowered gas mileage you will get running on lower fuel grades and you're not even "saving" anything.

Compared to the cost and time to replace damaged parts or the entire engine, it's not worth the risk, IMHO.

You should be able to get a used Bonneville for far less than 6K.
Even a dealership shouldn't be charging that much for one.

Look on Craigslist for private sales, which should be much lower.

[CrazyCalvinWilliams]

Ok. I'll just shut up and pay the extra ~30¢ and get premium fuel because I really want to daily an SSEi plus it won't cost too much more in the end anyways.

[CrazyCalvinWilliams]

Now here's my next question.

In my city I have access to a marina that sells 110 octane unleaded ethanol-free gasoline. They will fill up gas cans and I know people who run it in their cars to drag race with it. Can an SSEi handle this high octane fuel?

[swampthing]

Its not necessary unless you are making serious power beyond stock and won't really give you any gains over premium. Just a quick explanation on octane if you are not familiar: the octane rating measures the fuels resistance to detonating when under compression so more compression means a higher octane fuel is needed. Most new cars have shifted over to direct injection which usually allows a higher performance engine to run on 87, 3800's do not have that as an option. Just to be clear 91 is the minimum rating, here in the heat of Florida I ran 93. Anything beyond that is wasted money. Also just in case you are thinking about it, the octane boosters sold in parts stores are not cost effective, they say they raise octane 10 points, however in the fine print it shows that it only raises it .1 in other words it would make 87 octane into 87.1.

[MKMike]

Now here's my next question.

In my city I have access to a marina that sells 110 octane unleaded ethanol-free gasoline. They will fill up gas cans and I know people who run it in their cars to drag race with it. Can an SSEi handle this high octane fuel?

110 Octane fuel is Leaded Gasoline. http://www.vpracingfuels.com/page469687.html
http://racegas.com/fuel/1 http://www.thomaspetro.com/88-and-91-oc ... g-gas.html http://www.racegas.com/article/38
The problem is not the octane rating; It's the lead.
If you use leaded gasoline in a car with a catalytic converter, which includes every US made car since 1975, it will ruin the catalytic converter. It will also ruin your oxygen sensors.
Loss of either the oxygen sensors' functions or the converter's functions will cause your car to fail emissions.
O2 sensors that don't work cause your car to waste more gas (bad gas mileage).

[CrazyCalvinWilliams]

Now here's my next question.

In my city I have access to a marina that sells 110 octane unleaded ethanol-free gasoline. They will fill up gas cans and I know people who run it in their cars to drag race with it. Can an SSEi handle this high octane fuel?

110 Octane fuel is Leaded Gasoline. http://www.vpracingfuels.com/page469687.html
http://racegas.com/fuel/1 http://www.thomaspetro.com/88-and-91-oc ... g-gas.html http://www.racegas.com/article/38
The problem is not the octane rating; It's the lead.
If you use leaded gasoline in a car with a catalytic converter, which includes every US made car since 1975, it will ruin the catalytic converter. It will also ruin your oxygen sensors.
Loss of either the oxygen sensors' functions or the converter's functions will cause your car to fail emissions.
O2 sensors that don't work cause your car to waste more gas (bad gas mileage).

Oh ok .I thought it was unleaded because lead wasn't mentioned at the gas station. I'll just run 91 or 93 octane, no problem.

Thank you everyone for your information and helping me clear up my octane confusion. Becoming a Bonneville owner sounds like it'll be real fun!