LIM gasket question

[mrbear3800]

Hello. The car in question is an 03 Lesabre, not a Bonneville. Hope this is OK.

I've searched extensively before joining. I think I'm going to go with the APN UIM and the revised aluminum GM LIM gaskets. I've done this job on both my old 89 and 93 Lesabres so it shouldn't be too hard.

My question: Is this the GM aluminum gaskets I'm looking for?:

http://intense-racing.com/Merchant2/mer ... ry_Code=GH

Also, has anyone ever had a problem with the APN manifolds?

Thanks!

[Wes]

yeah, we welcome ALL cars here, we dont descriminate (too bad, lol). but the lesabre is basically the same as a bonneville. same platform, H body, just different looks. those are the right LIM gaskets. and the apn kit is great. has everything you need. except the coolant bypass elbow. but, you can find that in the help section for about $5.

[lash]

Yes. Those are the gaskets you're looking for.

As far as I am aware, all have been happy with the APN UIM kits. I know of no failures to them so far.

[mrbear3800]

Jeez, $12.48 to ship a couple of gaskets?? Is it still cheaper than going to a dealer?

[lash]

Good question!

I know, I bought a set at the local dealer and spent less than $63 after taxes. But that was two years ago. I'd say it's close and your choice may depend on how close you are to a dealer.

Give the dealer a call. That will answer your question.

[mrbear3800]

I just ended up ordering from the online vendor. Didn't feel like dealing with the dealer.

I'd like to flush all the old Dexcrap out of the system BEFORE I begin the intake job. Is there a radiator drain plug somewhere under there? I looked briefly under the car and all I saw was a giant plastic panel or "sheet" covering everything.

I also found where the actual leak is coming from. Appears to be at the front of the engine(accesories end), at the corner of the LIM, #1 cylinder side. I think it's been purely external so far. Oil seems OK and no odd sludge in the oil cap.

[willwren]

Keep in mind that shipping is based partly on package size.

[imidazol97]

I just ended up ordering from the online vendor. Didn't feel like dealing with the dealer.

I'd like to flush all the old Dexcrap out of the system BEFORE I begin the intake job. Is there a radiator drain plug somewhere under there? I looked briefly under the car and all I saw was a giant plastic panel or "sheet" covering everything.

I also found where the actual leak is coming from. Appears to be at the front of the engine(accesories end), at the corner of the LIM, #1 cylinder side. I think it's been purely external so far. Oil seems OK and no odd sludge in the oil cap.

There is a plastic drain plug. It's on the left side of the radiator. There is a large diameter hole in the plastic air panel so you can put a tool up there to turn the two prongs on the plug. Someone posted this in a forum recently. Even my service manager couldn't find it to show me when my 03 was a year or two old and I was ready to change the DexCool with fresh.

[mrbear3800]

Alright, I ripped everything off today. What a mess. I'm glad I talked my parents into doing this before something bad happened. The writeup posted on here was a nice reference. Kudos to those involved in composing that:

Gunk in coolant passages. I think these are dead-end passages but still nasty. I "fingered" the crap out and then vacuumed:



FAIL gasket. This thing only has 66K miles.



Shot of both gaskets:



Crap I was digging out of those passages:



It was a very easy job to take it all apart. Seemed easier than the 89 and 93 Lesabres that I replaced the gaskets on many moons ago. BTW, that tensioner is HUGE...lol...Wonder what engineer thought up that great setup.

The "upper" elbow broke at the manifold end as predicted in the writeup. I fished the o-ring out but I can't find the tip of the elbow. I shook the manifold but didn't hear anything rattling in there. I hope it fell out under the hood somewhere.

Do I need to replace the "lower" elbow as well?

[bill buttermore]

...Do I need to replace the "lower" elbow as well?

It is a good idea to do so. The elbows come together in a "Help" package from Dorman available at most parts stores for about $6. The elbows are fitted with new o-rings.

[mrbear3800]

Ok, thanks. Picked a pack up today.

Found something odd. The #5 injector has a conical shaped tip on the nozzle end. The rest do not. What's the deal with that??

Thanks!

[agrazela]

Ok, thanks. Picked a pack up today.

Found something odd. The #5 injector has a conical shaped tip on the nozzle end. The rest do not. What's the deal with that??

Thanks!

Pics?

[mrbear3800]

Ok, thanks. Picked a pack up today.

Found something odd. The #5 injector has a conical shaped tip on the nozzle end. The rest do not. What's the deal with that??

Thanks!

Pics?

Injector on the far right:



Link to the bigger pic, if needed:

http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/reg ... a/662653_1

[mrbear3800]

How nice, the injector o-rings that came with the kit don't work with these injectors. They are a direct replacement for the top o-rings but are too thick for the nozzle ends.

Also, it came with these "sleeves" that don't appear to be used on this setup.

[bill buttermore]

Those injectors do look different from the ones used on my '95. Perhaps there was a late model change to the injectors and LIM injector bores that we are not aware of. Just for comparison, the injector bore diameter on my '95 LIM is 0.550" and the diameter of the injector o-ring groove at the nozzle is 0.306". If your measurements are close to those, the APN o-rings should work for you too.

If you have different measurements, please let us know so we can update our information.

The nozzle ends o-rings will appear larger when you change them out on the injectors. Here is how they look before they have been compressed:



Make sure the LIM bores are clean and lubed with a little silicone grease to help those fat new o-rings wiggle in there.

As for the sleeves, although I have changed them out, if there is not anything obviously wrong with the old ones, I cannot see why they would need to be changed.

[mrbear3800]

I don't really have anything to accurately measure those with. What should I use? The "nozzle end" o-rings are indeed smaller than the top ones. They are much thinner. I tried to push an injector into the bore with the "fat" o-ring installed and there was no way it was going in. It didn't even fit in the injector grove properly. But they work perfect for the top.

Also, there is no place for those sleeves that came with the kit to go. The only things on the these injectors resembling any sort of sleeve are much thicker than what came with the kit.

Advance Auto Parts sells the lower o-rings for my year seperately. I shall go there tomorrow and see if they are correct and report back.

Still wondering why that one injector has the wierd tip on it......

[bill buttermore]

I have an inexpensive electronic caliper I bought at Harbor Freight tools for about $15 that I use for measurement +/- .001" up to about 5 or 6 inches. I use micrometers for more exacting work like bearing journals.

The APN and Dorman UIM kits supply o-rings and sleeves that will fit a majority, but apparently, not all, of the L36 run of engines. Remember that these engines were produced with the plastic upper intake manifold for nine years - from 1995 to 2003. It appears that a change in injectors occurred in your case. I would just buy the proper o-rings for your car, replace them, lube them up and not worry about the sleeves.

BTW, thanks for re-checking that information - I have edited the Techinfo article on Changing the LIM gaskets accordingly.

The same sort of thing happens with gasket sets. Parts are provided for the most common applications, and are not always perfectly suited to a particular model year. And although the dealer can usually provide the highest quality replacement parts for your car, that is not true with the UIM. Only APN gives you a metal heat shield and a reduced diameter stove pipe to put an end to UIM failures.

RE the one conical nozzle - it would appear that someone replaced that injector. You might want to see if you can find a number on it to make sure it is a correct application for your engine. Your dealer should be able to help you with that.

[mrbear3800]

Sounds good. Besides this minor hangup (and a snapped IAC screw!), the whole job went very smoothly. A lot easier to work on than my 95 Grand Marquis.

I just have to get the injectors, TB, and other random stuff back on and plugged in. I just hope there aren't any coolant leaks at those elbows. They seem to fit kinda....loose...

PS, here's a link to my supermotors page with various photos I've taken of the job (in case anyone needs them for references or writeups, etc).

http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/reg ... 7443/65639

[mrbear3800]

OK, it's all done. Running well and no leaks so far. Thanks once again for everyone's help.

The first time I drove it, the engine was "racing" but it seems to have resolved itself. It was also experiencing extended crank times the first few times I started it but that also seems to have resolved itself. Another issue I had hoped would go away after this job was a "whistle" or "squeal" sound under moderate to hard acceleration. But it's still doing it, same as before. Sounds like a vacuum leak to me.

I was romping on it a little when I took it for a test drive. This thing is a DOG compared to my wife's old 99 Lesabre. Seems like there is a lot of "power management" during shifts. Really kills acceleration. It "hangs" during shifts, especially 2-3.

The lower injector o-rings are indeed smaller on this year and model. FYI, the Napa P/N is ES1190. They come in packs of 4 so you have to get 8. Sorry, I wasn't able to measure the injector bores.

Here's some final pics:

APN intake. Note smaller EGR stovepipe and metal sleeve. Also note removing the exhaust crossover pipe is not needed in this car's case, it's well out of the way:



Mostly done:



"DexCool" scraped off of resevoir tank cap:



All cleaned up:

[willwren]

The nearest I can tell is that your car has a redesigned injector of some unknown manufacturer.

http://www.herkofilters.com/INJECTOR%20 ... 0GUIDE.pdf
They are listed as 00-05 on that page. Pintle caps are typically not necessary for proper injector operation, but I can't speak for that particular design.

They are also listed here:
http://www.allworldautomotive.com/featu ... 0240719869

From my cross-referencing, it appears Delphi made those as opposed to the typical Bosch or Rochester used in most H bodies over the years.