Easy way to bypass VATS without fumbling wires?

[nickdalzell1]

my car is getting very problematic with the VATS system--anytime it's hot and humid---we're in the middle of a long heatwave that seems to not be breaking anytime soon, with heavy humidity due to t-storms. so it's becoming a problem--even got stuck for half an hour at Wal-Mart in heavy heat because it 'locked out' (Security light stayed on even with the key off, for up to ten minutes and when it did go out, it repeated this cycle three times in a row) and i had to sit there and wait until it reset. the only 'easy' way i am reading about online involves taking half the under-dash apart and finding the two wires that sense the resistor pellet in the key and putting a resistor of same value in place to fool the system to work. but there's a gazillion wires under there, plus an airbag i do not feel comfortable messing with. is there an easier way? is there a starter solenoid somewhere (i looked at the starter and cannot find it on it) i can just wire a button in to jump whenever it pulls this stunt so i can at least start the engine and not sit there in the heat waiting for the darn light to go off?

[sonoma_zr2]

The easiest way is to remove the C101 connector, it's the big one at the base of the steering column. Both vats wire go into this connector. Remove the 2 vats leads from the column side of the connector and jumper with a resistor that matches your key.



The wire on the right is the vats wire, orange sheathing with 2 white wires inside.
Also, this isn't the whole C101 connector, it's a part of it.

[MattStrike]

Yes, easier way is to unplug the VATS module, build the sin wave generator bypass (simple DC circuit, i has schematic somewhere) that emulates the VATS module and done! You could make it removable to retain the protection of the VATS. Note that the starter disable relay (and if it has it the fuel pump cutoff relay) would have to be bypassed, but IIRC they are on normally closed relays so maybe not, I don't have my CSMs handy to verify.

The problem with the resistor method is that it completely disables VATS, rendering it useless. With the emulator, you retain the fuel injector disable feature in the PCM.

[nickdalzell1]

i'd rather it be useless than prevent me from stealing my own car! to me it's as pointless as TheftLock. why the heck would they put such a useless feature in a STOCK stereo when people are more likely to steal aftermarket high-end radios/players which ironically lack the feature in the first place (only having a removable faceplate). if i were a thief, i'd hardly waste my time trying to steal something as common as a later model Bonneville, i'd more likely look for a rare exotic like a Rolls Royce, or a Mercedes or something.

BTW my car's a 1992, and i've seen it do a lockout during driving without cutting the fuel off (the Security light comes on and stays on during a trip, and remains on sometimes after i turn the key off when parking for the normal duration of the lockout but engine would run through the trip while most newer more up-to-date VATS cars have stalled out of the blue when it happens) so i think it's just a starter cut-off. i like the first suggestion up top better personally, but if there is a way i can bypass the starter relay somewhere and push a button to work around the issue i'd love to hear it first

[Bob Dillon]

The problem with the resistor method is that it completely disables VATS, rendering it useless.

I'm trying to think of something, anything more useless than VATS. I can't.

Certainly an invention of the devil.

[Scuby]

Yes, easier way is to unplug the VATS module, build the sin wave generator bypass (simple DC circuit, i has schematic somewhere) that emulates the VATS module and done! You could make it removable to retain the protection of the VATS. Note that the starter disable relay (and if it has it the fuel pump cutoff relay) would have to be bypassed, but IIRC they are on normally closed relays so maybe not, I don't have my CSMs handy to verify.

The problem with the resistor method is that it completely disables VATS, rendering it useless. With the emulator, you retain the fuel injector disable feature in the PCM.

To revive this thread:

got instruction in building the bypas generator?

Seeing as the VATS system has it's own brain can't you just bypass it entirely with wiring. Removing the injector and starter interrupter?

Does anyone know what a '92 is exactly fitted with? I have to get mine started that I just bought, and this is step number one as the PO lost the key...

[Bob Dillon]

To revive this thread:

got instruction in building the bypas generator?

Seeing as the VATS system has it's own brain can't you just bypass it entirely with wiring. Removing the injector and starter interrupter?

Does anyone know what a '92 is exactly fitted with? I have to get mine started that I just bought, and this is step number one as the PO lost the key...

Check techinfo. Trust us, the resistor is easier.

[Scuby]

To revive this thread:

got instruction in building the bypas generator?

Seeing as the VATS system has it's own brain can't you just bypass it entirely with wiring. Removing the injector and starter interrupter?

Does anyone know what a '92 is exactly fitted with? I have to get mine started that I just bought, and this is step number one as the PO lost the key...

Check techinfo. Trust us, the resistor is easier.

Hi, the problem for me is two-fold. Someone, the PO's mechanic has made a mess of things (fusebox ripped out of place, few under dash/behind glove box things ripped half out) and over on this side of the pond, the resistors are A: hard to come by, B: I don't have a key, so 15 in the right range are even more difficult to come by and on top of everything else, when I get this car running properly I'll be pulling it apart ASAP as the engine is a donor so I need to figure out a way to run as little extra junk as possible... any help would be great.

Also, as I apreciate the easier route is what most people want, I don't mind the more difficult one if it eliminates this problem forever.
Is the VATS integrated with the PCM for intstance?

[Bob Dillon]

To revive this thread:

got instruction in building the bypas generator?

Seeing as the VATS system has it's own brain can't you just bypass it entirely with wiring. Removing the injector and starter interrupter?

Does anyone know what a '92 is exactly fitted with? I have to get mine started that I just bought, and this is step number one as the PO lost the key...

Check techinfo. Trust us, the resistor is easier.

Hi, the problem for me is two-fold. Someone, the PO's mechanic has made a mess of things (fusebox ripped out of place, few under dash/behind glove box things ripped half out) and over on this side of the pond, the resistors are A: hard to come by, B: I don't have a key, so 15 in the right range are even more difficult to come by and on top of everything else, when I get this car running properly I'll be pulling it apart ASAP as the engine is a donor so I need to figure out a way to run as little extra junk as possible... any help would be great.

Ummm...If you're removing the engine, why do you care about the VATS system?

Also, as I apreciate the easier route is what most people want, I don't mind the more difficult one if it eliminates this problem forever.
Is the VATS integrated with the PCM for intstance?

It's over my head. No idea. But the package of 5 resistors to fix the problem cost me less than $2 at Radio Shack and I fixed the problem in less than a half hour. It's lasted over 100K. That's permanent to me.

[RJolly87]

What is the engine going in to?

The VATS is all in the securty module, which checks for the correct resistance across the key, and controls interrupt of the starter. When the security module is satisfied, it enables the starter, and sends an 'all clear' signal to the PCM, which then fires the injectors. Without the 'all clear' signal, the PCM will never fire the injectors. If you are using the engine management system of the receiving vehicle, then you won't need to worry about this nonsense. If you are using the PCM from the donor vehicle, you can either have it reflashed/reprogrammed so that it doesn't require the VATS to run, or you can use something like this:

http://newrockies.com/the-problem-and-the-solution/

It basically mimics the signal from the system, you would just bypass the starter interrupter, and never look back.

[Scuby]

guys thanks,

I am using this PCM and wiring loom in the donor vehicle. It's either going in my MGB GT, or a Volvo Amazon ( I have a 5spd so I'll need the reflash either way). The thing is I like to get the donor engine's up and running properly in the vehicle donating them before I swap. Experience has taught me this avoid A LOT of hastle down the road.

It's going to be great in either vehicle with a 5 speed, donated from an s10. But for now, I need it to run in the Pontiac, simply if not to be able to move it around the shop untill I get to it.

cheers,

[MattStrike]

R1 = 10,000 Ohms
R2 = 100,000 + 33,000 = 133,000 Ohms

Capacitors are 0.1 microfarad.

Check the schematic for the VATS module connector, everything you need is there.

Engine swap means either you take the whole VATS system and wire it in, or sine wave generator which is three wires and about $18 in Radio shack parts.

[Scuby]

Ok, I'm gonna try and whip that up.

In the meantime. Curious situattion:

My wiring has been hacked into due to the VATS I presume as the guy I bought it from said: It used to start fine and then it rained and wouldn't start, I dunno, also I lost the key"

So to rule out a few things today I went out to start it manually, and suspected I would need to use starter fluid as I expected no fuel but hoped for spark.

Ignition to ON: wanting to bump the oil pressure up first as it's not run in a year I tried starting manually, without starter fluid: voila! It ran for 2 seconds...

Manually bump the starter with starter switch, car will fire and run for 2 seconds.... must be the 'short fuel interrupt'. Based on my research there is a 4 second interrupt and a 10 min interrupt from the ECU in fuel supply cut off (i'm adding this info for future searchers!)

Security stops flashing at this point and stays off (after first start) but it will not run longer than 2 seconds, unless I use starter fluid. So the injectors are interrupted indeed. Starter also doesn't work off the key.

I feel so close!!

Also can anyone confirm or deny that this in the picture may once have been the VATS control unit? Like I said, PO butchered the car... :(

It's got two bleau plugs and one white... if not VATS/TDM what is it?

[MattStrike]

It's not VATS, I thought it was some sort of body module or courtesy lamp controller or something. VATS is behind the glove box.

[Scuby]

It's not VATS, I thought it was some sort of body module or courtesy lamp controller or something. VATS is behind the glove box.

Sweet.

Although all the courtesey lights work... only thing on this poor abused car that doesn't work is the heads up display... it kills me hoe people can treat something that must have been mint about 8 months ago like sh*t leave the windows open, rip apart what they don't understand. This things done just over 100k miles!

Anyways, thanks for the repy.

[Jrs3800]

Ok, I'm gonna try and whip that up.

In the meantime. Curious situattion:

My wiring has been hacked into due to the VATS I presume as the guy I bought it from said: It used to start fine and then it rained and wouldn't start, I dunno, also I lost the key"

So to rule out a few things today I went out to start it manually, and suspected I would need to use starter fluid as I expected no fuel but hoped for spark.

Ignition to ON: wanting to bump the oil pressure up first as it's not run in a year I tried starting manually, without starter fluid: voila! It ran for 2 seconds...

Manually bump the starter with starter switch, car will fire and run for 2 seconds.... must be the 'short fuel interrupt'. Based on my research there is a 4 second interrupt and a 10 min interrupt from the ECU in fuel supply cut off (i'm adding this info for future searchers!)

Security stops flashing at this point and stays off (after first start) but it will not run longer than 2 seconds, unless I use starter fluid. So the injectors are interrupted indeed. Starter also doesn't work off the key.

I feel so close!!

Also can anyone confirm or deny that this in the picture may once have been the VATS control unit? Like I said, PO butchered the car... :(

It's got two bleau plugs and one white... if not VATS/TDM what is it?

The module in the Pic is the RAC( Retained Accessory Control ) aka Keyless/Illuminated Entry/Retained Accessory...

[Scuby]

Ok, I'm gonna try and whip that up.

In the meantime. Curious situattion:

My wiring has been hacked into due to the VATS I presume as the guy I bought it from said: It used to start fine and then it rained and wouldn't start, I dunno, also I lost the key"

So to rule out a few things today I went out to start it manually, and suspected I would need to use starter fluid as I expected no fuel but hoped for spark.

Ignition to ON: wanting to bump the oil pressure up first as it's not run in a year I tried starting manually, without starter fluid: voila! It ran for 2 seconds...

Manually bump the starter with starter switch, car will fire and run for 2 seconds.... must be the 'short fuel interrupt'. Based on my research there is a 4 second interrupt and a 10 min interrupt from the ECU in fuel supply cut off (i'm adding this info for future searchers!)

Security stops flashing at this point and stays off (after first start) but it will not run longer than 2 seconds, unless I use starter fluid. So the injectors are interrupted indeed. Starter also doesn't work off the key.

I feel so close!!

Also can anyone confirm or deny that this in the picture may once have been the VATS control unit? Like I said, PO butchered the car... :(

It's got two bleau plugs and one white... if not VATS/TDM what is it?

The module in the Pic is the RAC( Retained Accessory Control ) aka Keyless/Illuminated Entry/Retained Accessory...

thanks!!