INTENSE PCM

[bonnevillain]

will it require a CASE learn on my SLE? if so, how much did you guys pay?

[sonoma_zr2]

if you sent in yours, no, a learn is not needed. If they sent you one and you are returning yours, yes. Dealer charges will vary if they will do it right. Find someone local with a tuner.

[freneticburn]

If you need a CASE learn and live in the Twin Cities area there are a few people with tuners over on mnclubgp.com that could probably help you out, maybe even do it for free. Some dude from Richfield hooked me up. It's a forum a lot like this one, only it's for Grand Prix (which happen to share a lot in common with Bonnevilles mechanically). Stealerships will RAPE you ($120+), auto shops won't know what the hell a CASE learn is (to them it's crankshaft variation position learn or some nonsense like that), and honestly just finding someone with a tuner is your best bet and chances are they won't charge you.

[bonnevillain]

hmm. maybe. i heard that some dealerships are good, and some aren't i think one even did it for free IIRC. any MN members wanna chime in?

[freneticburn]

hmm. maybe. i heard that some dealerships are good, and some aren't i think one even did it for free IIRC. any MN members wanna chime in?

I had to get a CASE learn back in March or April. I live in Maple Grove and called every Pontiac/GM/Buick dealership within 10 minutes of me and they either didn't know what a CASE learn was or said I will get charged an hour's rate of labor no matter what. There's also the chance that the dealership will reflash your PCM resulting in the loss of any tune or changes (back to stock specs).

I really cannot stress enough how important it is to avoid dealerships. Kind of off-topic but I can give you a great example of how they rape people. My buddy the other night backed into my car and put a nice dent and scratch on my car. He was SLOWLY backing up and hardly even hit my car before he stopped and realized what happened so I know there is no major damage, just the dent and sctratches. So today I was out getting estimates. I won't name names or disclose the cost estimates but the dealership body shop (I know that's different than the mechanics department but still...) gave me an estimate 50% more expensive than a major auto body repair shop and over 100% more expensive than a smaller body shop I found. The dealership just isn't worth it.

I don't want to seem like I'm making your choices here for you but I strongly encourage you to just find someone with a tuner around you. One post on mnclubgp and I guarantee someone will reply within a day. Or if you live around Maple Grove go to that Ricekiller.com meet they do down at the parking lot near Barnes & Noble and Gander Mountain on Monday nights. You might run into someone with a tuner that could work on your car.

[93 SSE 4 ME]

I bought mine out right from Intense, (keeping my original) and did not require a Case Relearn for my '05. I needed to perform a security re-learn procedure, but that only required a few steps and some time, no Tech2, no dealership.

Mark

[bonnevillain]

how do you know if you need one?

[93 SSE 4 ME]

I'll see if I can find the paperwork that came with the PCM.

Mark

[sonoma_zr2]

how do you know if you need one?

see my first response, that is how you know. if you sent in yours and they sent it back to you, you don't need one. if they sent you one and you sent yours back, then you do need a case learn.

[93 SSE 4 ME]

I did not send mine in, nor did I require a CASE re-learn.

Mark

[freneticburn]

I bought mine out right from Intense, (keeping my original) and did not require a Case Relearn for my '05. I needed to perform a security re-learn procedure, but that only required a few steps and some time, no Tech2, no dealership.

Mark

I hate to break it to you but you NEED to get a CASE relearn ANY TIME the PCM has either been swapped or the crankshaft (or maybe it was camshaft ) has been moved.

Your car will start and probably run fine, I know mine did. However it can be less efficient and possibly damage your engine if you really beat on it. Most people in the know seem to say don't take it over 3K RPMs until you get a relearn done. It may also throw you codes later on. I remember before I got my relearn I tried to start my car once and it died right away, I turned it to off and restarted my car to a check engine light. I never got to check it but it had to be a misfire code since it reset itself after I think 5 restarts. It's directly related to the CASE relearn.

[bonnevillain]

how do you know if you need one?

see my first response, that is how you know. if you sent in yours and they sent it back to you, you don't need one. if they sent you one and you sent yours back, then you do need a case learn.

i read that, but then i read this

I did not send mine in, nor did I require a CASE re-learn.

Mark

[freneticburn]

how do you know if you need one?

see my first response, that is how you know. if you sent in yours and they sent it back to you, you don't need one. if they sent you one and you sent yours back, then you do need a case learn.

i read that, but then i read this

I did not send mine in, nor did I require a CASE re-learn.

Mark

Trust us. It says this in the paperwork that came with the PCM and Intense even says it on the 3800 Pro forums ( http://www.3800pro.com/forum/pcms-tunin ... learn.html ), and probably even on their website as well. I don't think it's of tremendous importance, but if people like Intense-Racing or ZZP (though they don't stress it as hard), who tune and build these cars, say it should be done then it's probably a good idea to listen to them.

[Barry]

I just sent mine in to Intense and based on what their web page said, I took mine in for a CASE Learn. This is from their page:

What do I need to do after installing a new INTENSEâ„¢ PCM?

Most vehicles will start right up. Some cars (such as the Bonneville SSEi, Impala SS and Monte Carlo SS) will require performing a simple Security Relearn Procedure. All cars will benefit from a Crankshaft Position Variation Learn procedure (commonly referred to as CASE Learn). Anyone with a Tech II (such as a GM dealership) can perform this special function for you in a couple minutes.

Some discretion is necessary when asking your dealership to NOT re-flash the PCM. If they re-flash the PCM, all your special tuning will be gone and un-retrievable.

Paperwork that came with the PCM when it was returned said I would need to do a Security Relearn Procedure, but I did not have to. I called around to numerous dealerships, and while most have a Tech II, I only found one dealer that had a tech that knew exactly what the procedure was and how to do it. His name is Paul and he was at Shakopee Chevrolet and Pontiac.
They charged me $49.00. I did not find a single independent shop that had a Tech II.

[gonzo4191]

just saw on aeroforce that the new scangauge can do a CASE relearn

[Rogue]

I had a really great write up somewhere on the old site but couldn't go back and find it.

Anytime the PCM, camshaft or crank sensor is replaced a crankshaft variation learn is mandated by GM in our cars.

Each car has a slight variation between the two crank signals and the CASE learn teaches that variation to the PCM. If your variation is -2 degrees for example then when taught this the PCM wanting 15 degress will ask for 17 to get the 15 it wants. If the variation is +4 then it will ask for 11 to get 15. The problem comes when your variation is say +3 and the learned variance in some random PCM you install is -2 then the PCM will ask for 17 thinking it will get 15 but because of the actual +3 variation you end up getting +5 or 20 degress timing.

Depending on the variance you could end up with less than optimal timing, more than expected timing or if your lucky and the moon is right your current variance and the learned variance in the PCM your installing may actually be the same.

[LeSabreUltra]

IIRC, 97's don't require a CASE re-learn because they have a detachable unit (not sure of the name) that stores the crank data or whatnot and can be interchanged between PCMs.

98-05 will require a CASE re-learn though, as they don't have this unit. Unless, as mentioned before, you just get really lucky. Most likely it'll run best after a CASE re-learn.
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[juniorcruzer]

I have HP tuners, so if you wanna just order up the vin and it is $100 for the license for your car and we can load it up.

Jon

[PDXGTP]

With HPTuners the case learn is part of the scanner.
Believe it or not, the case learn is free or any vehicle it supports, you don't have to have the liscense to do a case learn.
If you have the local guy with HPTuners then your in good shape if he nows how to tune. That makes it all good.
I only do one on someones car if:
- its not commanding timing correctly.
- The motor doesn't start on the first crank.
- you are geting cps count errors, I don't remember the code off the top of my head.
I wouldn't worry if the car is running with no errors.

[bonnevillain]

what do you mean by not commanding timing correctly? how would you know..