1999 SE with seized motor

[e8r23i80c]

Hello everyone. Just picked up a clean 99 SE with seized motor. Been shopping online for engines and already got some great advice from one of moderators on here as far as what other motors are compatible. Two questions so far. Does anyone know what is fair to pay for a used motor? Also, would it be cheaper to have the seized one rebuilt? Or is that even possible. The seized motor has 178k on it so maybe rebuilding it isn't the best option? At any rate found a motor from a 06 Buick Lucerne with only 50k on it for $600 shipped to me...which seems fair to me but just checking here first as I know you guys know every inch of these cars.

[Jrs3800]

Thats a good price on that motor shipped... Do you have any local places that would be willing to deal?

I would not bother to rebuild what you have unless you are going for all out performance... These 3800's can get a bit expensive to rebuild..

I have found most in my area are 600-700 pretty easily... There are a couple for $450 or so with decently low miles.. But 600 shipped is good in my eyes..

[e8r23i80c]

I have nobody local as I live in the northern california coast and other than where I live the next nearest town is 33 miles away. Not really going for all out performance. My last Bonne I just grandpa around in it. Love the ride in these cars. Thanks for input. Is there anything I should watch out for when buying an engine online? Sorry if questions are infantile but beyond changing brakes I don't know much about working on cars. The service dept at my dealership said the labor to install motor varies on whether motor comes with manifolds. Since current motor and car have 178k should I use the old ones if it doesn't come with them or does it matter?

[Jrs3800]

You will want to swap the rear manifold, the front and rear manifolds can stay.. Well, if the engine is from an H body car you won't need to change it at all, if its from a W body car then yes it will need to be changed..

If you get a series III, you will need to swap your upper intake onto the series III( The lower intake manifolds are the same ) The tensioner/alternator bracket will need to be swapped as well... There are little bits like the Temp sender that may need to be swapped to... Not sure if 99 has the 3 pin or the 2 pin like later years... Just some mickey mouse stuff encountered in every engine swap..

[Arrowhead]

You could see where your nearest Jasper dealer is. They reman. engines and have a pretty decent warranty. As far as I know, they don't sell to the public anymore so, you'd have to have it installed but, it might be a good alternative to the "crap shoot" of an unknown used motor. I bought a Stage 1- 5.7L 4-bolt Chevy from them 15+ years ago, and it's still going strong! If you go used, $600 sounds more than cheap enough, I hope it's a good one too !!

http://www.jasperengines.com/index.php


EDIT; after doing some checking on recent Jasper customers.....it seems like they might have "slipped" a little.

[david]

I think I would want to hear a engine run before I bought it. $600 shipped,I hope you dont get scammed. Just seems funny they will ship a good engine for only $600. It could be a blessing but there are to many people scamming now a days. How about this call a local company and ask how much it would cost to ship an engine.I not trying to be negative but it sounds to good to be true. Hope Im wrong ,good luck

[MattStrike]

Then of course, I prefer to rebuild one that I've got than gamble on a used engine. Depending on how much the engine needs, and how much of the work you'll do yourself, $600 gets you a rebuilt engine ($200 for gaskets, $200 for machine work to the crank, and the rest for R&R cam bearings, paint, etc...)

It's impossible to tell how much a rebuild will cost without determining the cause of the siezed engine; ie bearings or cylinder walls? Unless you're paying for a shop to do the rebuild, which won't matter as the cost is going to be the same. I've only ever had a used engine last about 1 year before it had to be rebuilt anyways, even one that only had 130k on it.

[e8r23i80c]

All great advice and thanks to all. I won't be doing any of the owrk myself. I'm great at tearing things apart but they never seem to go back together so I'm not taking the chance. I work at a Chrysler dealer and I am going to have them do all the work as I get half price on the labor (and they are letting me provide the engine). I have finally settled on an engine from an 08 Grand Prix. Getting it from Ebay from place in MN. They have almost 10,000 feedback with 99.4% being positive so I guess I will roll the dice. I just want to once again make sure from you folks that the engine will work for my car as... "A". Too be honest I don't know how much the techs at my job know or don't know so I want to be sure they aren't going to be "stumped" trying to swap this engine for me and "B". The place I'm getting the engine from says it won't fit my car but I know you guys know better. Also to touch on another point I don't know why my current engine is seized. Only info I got is previous owner let the car overheat. Sorry for long post...just trying to reply to all questions and comments and I'm super greatful for everyones help.

[david]

great on the feedback %-just google them to see if they have any complaints. I dont know why it wouldnt fit other then exhaust manifolds but Im not expert. Good luck and if you can take it apart you can build it ,dont fool yourself.

[toba-dude]

Just out of curiosity, does the seized motor have lots of water in the oil? I ask because I bought a '97 Bonneville 40th Anniversary Edition with a seized motor. I drained all the oil out as well as draining the radiator. I pulled the spark plugs and left them out. By turning the engine over, all water in the cylinders was pushed out. After re-installing the spark plugs, I changed the oil filter and added fresh oil. I did not add water to the radiator as I did not intend to run the engine but a minute or two. To my surprise, the engine started so I shut it off and started looking for a reason the water got in the oil. After do some research I found out that these engines are equipped with a plastic plenum or intake. They sometimes get hot and warp, allowing water to enter the crankcase. The plenum costs @ $150.00.

[Bugsi]

After do some research I found out that these engines are equipped with a plastic plenum or intake. They sometimes get hot and warp, allowing water to enter the crankcase. The plenum costs @ $150.00.

This is one of the most well-known and thoroughly discussed topics on this site. We have complete how-to guides to replacing the upper and lower intakes and gaskets.
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... c3591.html

HOWEVER: It's great that your engine starts and spins up with all the coolant drained, BUT: If you simply fix the top end and start driving the car, you're very likely to have the bottom end let go with ruined bearings. If the coolant sat for any length of time in the oil pan, it will corrode the bearings, and the lower end can let go on you at any time. We've had people (including myself) who caught the problem right away and got it drained and fixed and never had any problem with the lower end, but we've had others who had the lower end let go within a month. Just know that you're taking a risk, and that risk is worse the longer the engine sat with the coolant mixed with the oil. If you're not wanting to take the risk, a replacement used motor is the way to go.

[toba-dude]

The engine had 110,000 miles on it when it seized. After doing what I said I did, it still runs great at 240,000 miles. The only thing is; it has a slight wrist pin knock on one of the cylinders. Don't know which one.

[Bugsi]

The engine had 110,000 miles on it when it seized. After doing what I said I did, it still runs great at 240,000 miles. The only thing is; it has a slight wrist pin knock on one of the cylinders. Don't know which one.

OK, it sounded like you bought yours recently. You can probably get away with the wrist pin knock for another 100,000 miles.

[e8r23i80c]

sorry to keep on with the same topic but I'm still having some trouble. I tried calling to buy an engine from an 08 Grand Prix and the guy wouldn't sell me the engine as he said after 2004 the actual engine block is different and wont fit my 1999. Is this true or is the guy just covering his donkey?

[Bugsi]

he said after 2004 the actual engine block is different and wont fit my 1999. Is this true or is the guy just covering his donkey?

The last year for the L36 was 2003. The L26 from 2004-2008 ought to have the same block but with stronger internals and an aluminum upper intake. I believe you should be able to use the L26 block no problem, and you could put the standard L36 cast iron upper intake on it, or you could use the aluminum upper intake but use an L36 throttle-body. One of the other gurus will no doubt know the answers here for certain.

[Jrs3800]

The engine block is 100% the same... There is 0 difference.. The crank is 100% the same.. The service balance is 100% the same.. In other words you could even swap the flywheel and balance over to it...

The heads on the series III flow slightly better, The connecting rods in the series III are Forged Powered Metal where the series II's are cast( 04 being a mixed year for the rods )...

Lets look at it this way... Just about all of the brackets from my series I that was in the van fit the series III I used.. I only had one that had to be modified to work, and that amounted to me shaving .25 " off the bracket..


That guy is full of crap... The 08 L26 will work fine..

Better flowing heads( ever so slightly ), Forged connecting rods, as well the newer balancer is a bit better, the service balance is no different, but the balancer design is better making for a slightly smoother running 3800... as well it has an oil pressure kit from the factory, it will run at roughly 70psi at road speed..These don't chew up push rods like the 95-02 3800's were know to do...

The rear exhaust manifold will have to be swapped, The temp sender will have to be swapped iirc.. The alternator bracket will need to be swapped for your alternator.. The torque axis mount bracket and parts will need to be swapped on... I think you should be able to leave the aluminum oil pan on, you may need to swap the oil filter adapter tho( This one I am not 100% sure of )... all in all it would be a swap like any other...

Don't tell them what its for.... Just say you need a motor for an 08 GP Vin 2....LOL

[e8r23i80c]

JRS3800 many many thanks for the good explanation. I will do exactly what you said and get the motor on its way. So stoked to be getting what sounds like an even better motor than the one it had (which is the same as my '96 and that car ran like a top).

[e8r23i80c]

I'm really sorry to beat this dead horse everyone but I'm mechanically stupid. I got the 08 engine here and my service dept is finally getting around to putting it in but they are telling me the same stuff that I was hearing before. The mechanics here are saying that since the flow of the head is different that it may throw the computer haywire? Also something about the water pump not being the same? Also something about different heater hoses? Also I don't know whether to tell them to order gaskets for the '99 or for the '08 for the swapped rear exhaust manifold. Is there another thread I can read more in depth about this particular swap or can I get some sort of very detailed explanation from one of you gearhead gods? I live paycheck to paycheck and can't even really afford to ship this eninge back. Thanks so much for eveyone's help so far. Hopefully I get to see this through and drive my freakn bonne already

[david]

I would think that engine 2008 will set of codes because its a newer motor and is design differently. But that is my thought on it. Computer is set for the 99 ,believe sensors are different. Hope someone here can help you out.

[Jrs3800]

Are they really trying to squeeze more money out of you or what?

what do they need to order gaskets for?

The water pump is a slightly different design but will work 100%, they need to leave the water pump and the pulley alone, They need to leave the 08 Balancer on the new motor.. They need to swap out your alternator bracket from the old motor to the new motor( you will need new coolant elbows for this ), once they do that they will be able to install your old alternator and solve the coolant hose issues...

As for the upper intake all they need is the gasket for the upper intake, tell them to leave the lower intake alone.....
They may need to swap the oil filter adapter from the old engine to the new engine, I am not 100% sure on that one... This will require a gasket, but they need to make sure they reinstall the 08 oil pressure relief spring and plunger back into the 08 motor..

The valve covers can stay, there is no need for them to touch them...

There is no need for them to touch the water pump..

If the ac compressor bracket is different then they can swap the one from your old motor..

The flywheel may need to be swapped out as well, its possible its set up for a larger torque converter unless its a dual pattern fly wheel, both of them will have the same service balance.. Both engines used the same crank sensor, same cam sensor, same Ignition Control module and coils... The front exhaust manifold should be untouched as well as the cross over to the rear manifold..

The most I could see them needing for gaskets is the Oil Filter Adapter and the upper intake gasket( if you have a new upper intake it should have new gaskets )...

I am sure I may be missing a few items for these guys, but its isn't rocket science... There are some slight differences with the engines, but the bolt hole locations are 100% identical to your old motor... The heads on the new motor flow a tad better, but its not enough to make any difference in the least as to what the computer will do... The computer will know no better... Once its all done they should perform a Crank Variation Learn Sequence...

I put a series III in my Van... sandrock put a series III in his 97 Bonneville several years back... Not sure what they are looking at.. The series II and series III for all intent purposes are the same engine...

If you have any more questions, just ask away...