PENNY IS UNDEAD

[yonkerse]

Was there ever really a known cause for your issues??

Interested in hearing how it does with some road time...

[nos4blood70]

Well it all started with a UIM failure. Then all the problems proceeded from there. The reason she wouldn't start is unknown. I did forget to put the PCV valve in the new UIM, but I feel like something else was causing her to not want to start, since a couple days later she started without and ran well enough with the oil cap in place.

[SSEiMan01]

I say she hydro-locked...

[gonzo4191]

How She been carl

[nos4blood70]

She's been perfectly fine, Juan. Thanks for asking. Nothing abnormal to report. She just has a goofy idle sometimes which may be due to either the wires being bad (Taylors), or the plugs being fouled. Nothing too concerning for me (read: don't have money to investigate). She finally has Peak "green stuff" flowing through her veins and had a complete and proper flush done by me before it got chilly. Have put 500 miles on her since the ordeal and she isn't missing a beat. Her PCS issue seems to have gone away as well. This car is a bucket of mishaps, but it won't fail. Right now I'm just being gentle and saving gas money and just the car in general. Other then wax and seal and truck bedliner on the under body before the winter hits, she won't be getting any more mods or attention for a LONG time to come. Other things in life need attention at the moment. I'm just lucky she survived without horribly expensive repairs being needed.

[Gagger14]

Hey just noticed this thread and am having issues with my parent's '00 SE. She died on us last week and have since changed the spark plugs, tested the alternator, checked the battery, replace the idle tensioner, replaced the serpentine belt, and checked the coolant. At first we couldn't get it to start, but after we got everything replaced and the pedal to the floor she fired up and sounded terrible. Just wondering if yours sounded anything like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqS08kTf ... e=youtu.be

A couple of others have said the engine is a goner, which i wouldn't be surprised as it has 185k on it, but this thread as offered some hope. Any insight would be great, thanks!

[nos4blood70]

I think I can hear a bearing squealing. In which case that engine is going out. It is A LOT noisier than Penny ever was. She had a lifter tick that sounded like gun shots, but your engine sounds like it's knocking as well. However, I'd have to hear it in real life to tell, since videos can be misleading.

Did you notice any milkshake in your oil? Or metal sparkles? Metal sparkles mean dead motor. Milkshake doesn't have to mean dead motor. Just drain the oil ASAP. To see if the UIM failed takes 10 minutes. Just take off the UIM and see if the LIM is filled with coolant. If you need a UIM, I have one that has barely 100 miles on that I will give you for the cost of shipping. It isn't the sleeved version, but it is the newer updated version that has reinforcements and thicker plastic around the coolant passages.

[Gagger14]

Once we get some time to get back under the hood of the car, I will take a look at the oil and oil pan. Where is the best place to look for the 'milkshake' oil? Just at the filler cap?

Thanks again for the help. May be a few days before I get to it as we have some family stuff going on, but I will let you know as soon as I can.

Glad you got your ride back on the road. Nice little success story you got there. Thank you.

[Bing]

Sorry but I'd say that motor is roached.
More than likely you're going to have a sparkly mess in the oil pan. It'll show up on the dipstick too, just look for sparkles.

[nos4blood70]

Get a powerful flash light and look at what's on the dipstick.

[Bing]

I bet this is about what that oil pan looks like on the inside.
Mine sounded like that and this is what kind of damage happens.

[MattStrike]

That is rod knock. The squealing and intensity give it away. Another way to tell is put your ear by the oil pan. You will be able to tell for sure.

So the question becomes, do you want to repair it?

[Gagger14]

Yeah I thought so too, but my dad doesn't want to chalk it up as dead yet...

And to my surprise, I think he wants to attempt to fix it/rebuild the engine! Completely caught me off guard but well see how it goes. Got any tips?

Thanks for all the help!

[nos4blood70]

Engine swap! You can also put a reman crank in. I'll let Matt take over here. You should have seen the essay he sent me.

[Bing]

LKQ, Carpart, or your local junkyard can be a good way to source a decently low mileage motor for a good price. Don't even bother with a L36, just go with a L26 out of a Buick Lucerne, or Pontiac Grand Prix.

These motors have tight tolerances that aren't necessarily easy to follow for the average shade tree mechanic. Most of the time it will be cheaper and less time consuming to just go the junkyard motor route. A reputable place will offer a warranty and stand by it. When I opened up my replacement motor for parts swapping it still looked brand new inside.

[nos4blood70]

I agree. Plus L26's are plentiful and cheap with decently low miles.

[Gagger14]

If I can convince my dad to go with the L26, how much conversion is needed from the 3800 Series II (NA) engine?

[MattStrike]

I would do a rebuild if you could find a machinist that can keep the rod and main journal runout extremely tight. Usually the guys who have the equipment to build high-rpm racing engines can. But that doesn't mean that the reman crank shafts at autozoo are bad; just not my preferrence.

Rebuilding will cost more, but usually lasts longer.
If you do all the labor with minimal machine shop work, a long-block starts at $900 and a short block starts at $650. This depends on the prices of the machine shop services and parts, includes gaskets, and will go up if you need to replace any other parts. New internal parts can be a rip-off (you might be able to get a junkyard motor cheaper than the cost of replacing just a few rods, then have extra to spare). You can get bearings from ZZP for a good price. Always have a machine shop install cam bearings, they are crush-to-fit on these engines and must be scraped to fit the camshaft. Watch out for pitting on the camshaft lobes, performance cams are not much more expensive than OEM replacements so consider that option (l67 aftermarket has a lot to offer). Any rod with a damaged bearing should be replaced with new or used, it's junk because the runout is usually out of tolerance because of the bearing spinning. Always plastigague the new bearings/crank to ensure proper fit. Always liberally coat parts in assembly lube. I recommend having the machine shop balance the rotating assembly if an overbore was required. Also, the rocker arms tend to have issues at the push-rod. If they are scored and look like sandpaper, they can be fixed with a 5/16" ball nose end mill (carbide), only take enough material off to clean up the rocker and replace the push rods. Prime the oil pump (engine assembled, upside down with the oil pan off, pour oil into the pickup strainer and turn the crank by hand until almost 1/2 a quart is injested, dump the rest of the oil on the camshaft and close it up) That's about all I can think of at the moment.

The used engine route is cheaper, but you run the risk of the original owners doing long-term damage (poor oil change interval). I wouldn't get one unless it has under 80k miles. I am not familiar with the differences between the L36 & L26

[00Beast]

You just need to swap the L36 sensors and a good (preferably the APN sleeved) UIM onto the L26, along with the accessories (alternator, PS pump, etc). Should be extremely straightforward.

[Gagger14]

You just need to swap the L36 sensors and a good (preferably the APN sleeved) UIM onto the L26, along with the accessories (alternator, PS pump, etc). Should be extremely straightforward.

Isnt the L36 the supercharged version? We currently have the 3800 series II (non-supercharged) engine so I shouldn't have to swap those sensors, correct?

Thanks again for the help guys!