Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88, Olds 98 86-90 or Buick Le Sabre, Le Sabre T-Type and Park Avenue 85-90 . Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.
GO TO LAST PAGE"RESOLVED" ok past 3 months the car has not started for example if the engine is hot and i turn the car off to run into the gas station for 5 minutes and i come out to start it it will 6/10 times not start and sometimes will take about 15 minutes of sitting there waiting trying to fire it up and it will finally fire. TODAY the engine was warmed up i parked it at the park, came back and after about 30 minutes of waiting 5, 10, 15 min intervals it wouldnt start and i had to have it towed.
Heres the deal. i took off the valve stem looking cap on the fuel rail and while it was being turned over no fuel was even moving in the rail. Also after turning it over multiple times i smelled the tailpipe and smelt no gas. LASTLY i cannot hear the fuel pump turn on i put my ear right to the fuel nozzle opening and not a noise. HELP i need this car for work and school "RESOLVED"
NEW PROBLEM!!! Now i did the cps and it drove fine i parked it let it idle for about 10 minutes and without warning it just shut off like i turned the key. its showing a code 22 and code 23. i have already replaced the tps? I drive the same route twice parked the car and it turned off without warning. I THINK ITS HEAT RELATED! Singh
TOOK THE ICM TO AUTOZONE TESTED BAD 4 TIMES IN A ROW ORDERED A NEW ONE WILL BE HERE SATURDAY OR MONDAY CROSSED FINGERS!
Last edited by murderedout on Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:20 pm, edited 10 times in total.
If you can't hear the fuel pump, it may in fact be bad. Yours will have made it longer than the one on our 89 LE. Might also want to check fuel pump relay, as a precaution.
Will
91 Riviera | S2 L67 Swap/4T60E | 127K mi | Antelope Met. w/ Tan Int. | Saved From Death By Crusher
92 Bonneville SSE | L67/4T60E | 77K mi | Med Slate Grey w/ Two-Tone Grey Int. | Low Miles Time Capsule
92 Lumina Z34 | LQ1/4T60E | 177k mi | Torch Red w/Grey Int. | Rusty In Odd Spots
99 Tahoe LT | L31/4L65E | 276k mi | Spiral Grey Metallic w/Grey Int. | Truck for Truck Things and Portable Concert Hall
02 Bonneville SSEi | 171k mi | Black w/Neutral Int. | Backup and road trip car
03 Park Avenue Ultra | 212K mi | White Diamond Met. w/ Shale Int. | Southern Time Capsule
05 Acura RL | 165K mi | Carbon Grey Pearl w/Ebony Int. | The Super-Hooptie Daily
Well have you ever changed the fuel filter? It's sounds to me like a plugged fuel filter causing the failure of your fuel pump or it may have caused the fuel pump to blow its fuse(I don't think you are that lucky though). Check the fuse then check voltage at the fuel pump. If the pump has voltage then its a bad pump, be sure to change the filter too. Be careful with live wires next to the gas tank.
Seth
Bonita 78,000 miles traded on a CTS4
RogueSSEi wrote: Bet she'll stop on a dime and give you 3 pennies back!
I would rely on a fuel pressure test gauge to tell me if fuel is getting to the rail, or did you use a screwdriver and press the valve in on the fuel rail (under the cap)? Some fuel pumps are nearly silent. I definately agree you should change the fuel filter.
But the no-start when hot problem is an symptom that the coolant temp sensor or cam sensor/magnet are failing and that could be a separate issue altogether.
Boost addict
The Fleet: '93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread '97 Camaro - Top swap '05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD '92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD '99 Montana - top swap 3800 '04 Sierra 2500HD - LLY Duramax
If you did not indicate the fuel pump concerns, I would have guessed a crankshaft position sensor issue.
~Randall~
1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place
sethjamesrimrodt wrote:Well have you ever changed the fuel filter? It's sounds to me like a plugged fuel filter causing the failure of your fuel pump or it may have caused the fuel pump to blow its fuse(I don't think you are that lucky though). Check the fuse then check voltage at the fuel pump. If the pump has voltage then its a bad pump, be sure to change the filter too. Be careful with live wires next to the gas tank.
i changed the fuel filter a few months ago. And it was changed about 2 years prior to that one. which relay do i check? i'll try to get a pressure tester today or tommorrow.
My 89 did the exact same thing and it ended up being the fuel pump. Do you run it with less than 1/4 tank of gas a lot. My symptoms were the exact same.
Have a fuel gauge with you and next time it does not start, see what the pressure is at the fuel rail.
myfirstbonnie wrote:My 89 did the exact same thing and it ended up being the fuel pump. Do you run it with less than 1/4 tank of gas a lot. My symptoms were the exact same.
Have a fuel gauge with you and next time it does not start, see what the pressure is at the fuel rail.
Yeah i do why? is it sucking *shoot* stuf off the bottom of the tank?
ANYWAYS the bonnieville is off to the shop on a tow truck. let you all know the damage by saturday
Fuel pumps don't like sucking dry like that...lol It puts a bit more strain on the fuel pump when you let it get empty on a regular basis.
Will
91 Riviera | S2 L67 Swap/4T60E | 127K mi | Antelope Met. w/ Tan Int. | Saved From Death By Crusher
92 Bonneville SSE | L67/4T60E | 77K mi | Med Slate Grey w/ Two-Tone Grey Int. | Low Miles Time Capsule
92 Lumina Z34 | LQ1/4T60E | 177k mi | Torch Red w/Grey Int. | Rusty In Odd Spots
99 Tahoe LT | L31/4L65E | 276k mi | Spiral Grey Metallic w/Grey Int. | Truck for Truck Things and Portable Concert Hall
02 Bonneville SSEi | 171k mi | Black w/Neutral Int. | Backup and road trip car
03 Park Avenue Ultra | 212K mi | White Diamond Met. w/ Shale Int. | Southern Time Capsule
05 Acura RL | 165K mi | Carbon Grey Pearl w/Ebony Int. | The Super-Hooptie Daily
SSEiMan01 wrote:Fuel pumps don't like sucking dry like that...lol It puts a bit more strain on the fuel pump when you let it get empty on a regular basis.
i usually dont let it get to low. when the tow truck came to get it it had a little less than half tank.
MattStrike wrote:Okay, as I suspected, the fuel pump wasn't the cause of the no-start when warm. Use an ohm-meter and test the coolant temp sensor.
Also, check the wiring harnesses for the coolant temp sensor and between the cam sensor and the ICM.
Next time it won't start, try holding the pedal at 50% and 100% respectively. This will prove/disprove my CTS theory.
Will do! also i have checked the magnet and it is intact and still in "the hole" also i replaced the sensor for the magnet(forgot what its called im really tierd) just as a precautionary method. next time im at my house i will try to get it to not start and try the half throttle full throttle deal. i have tried starting it with the pedal to the floor and it didnt work.
Okay, next step would be to test the wire harness between the cam/crank sensors and the ICM for continuity. Check each connector for corrosion, and make sure the tab springs on each female side of the connector are not pinched down. I don't have a pics of this, sorry.
Can you check your service engine soon codes?
If you have replaced the ICM with new (under the coils) it likely is not that. If it's used, then it very well may be a contributor. To check it, take a boot off one coil at a time, have a buddy crank the car and observe for spark (both when it starts and when it wont) do this for each coil. It should spark loudly and very bright blue. To check for fuel injector activity, you can use any 12v light bulb in place of the fuel injector. I use a standard turn signal lamp with two wires soldered to it for this. The reason to do this when it won't start is to verify that the crank/cam sensors and ICM/coils are working when it happens. I think the cam sensor can be ruled out at this point, if the wiring checks out.
Boost addict
The Fleet: '93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread '97 Camaro - Top swap '05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD '92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD '99 Montana - top swap 3800 '04 Sierra 2500HD - LLY Duramax
MattStrike wrote:Okay, next step would be to test the wire harness between the cam/crank sensors and the ICM for continuity. Check each connector for corrosion, and make sure the tab springs on each female side of the connector are not pinched down. I don't have a pics of this, sorry.
Can you check your service engine soon codes?
If you have replaced the ICM with new (under the coils) it likely is not that. If it's used, then it very well may be a contributor. To check it, take a boot off one coil at a time, have a buddy crank the car and observe for spark (both when it starts and when it wont) do this for each coil. It should spark loudly and very bright blue. To check for fuel injector activity, you can use any 12v light bulb in place of the fuel injector. I use a standard turn signal lamp with two wires soldered to it for this. The reason to do this when it won't start is to verify that the crank/cam sensors and ICM/coils are working when it happens. I think the cam sensor can be ruled out at this point, if the wiring checks out.
No check engine codes. what wires am i checking? and exactly what for? Is it the wide plug that has the bolt in the middle that plugs into the icm? WHY DID IT DIE WHILE IDLING IN PARK!
Wouldnt start at walmart so i had to have my buddy tow me back home, that was scary, anyways i let it sit for about 2 hours and tried to start it and it turned over fine. I tried it about 4 times and it worked. IT HAS TO BE HEAT RELATED!
I'll say it before, and I'll say it again. You are describing the exact symptoms of a Crankshaft Position Sensor Failure. It starts as a no start condition when warm, and eventually affects driveability, leaving you stuck on the side of the road. You never get a code, especially in that generation, just headaches.
~Randall~
1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place
Now i did the cps and it drove fine i parked it let it idle for about 10 minutes and without warning it just shut off like i turned the key. its showing a code 22 and code 23. i have already replaced the tps? I drive the same route twice parked the car and it turned off without warning. I THINK ITS HEAT RELATED! Singh
