List of repairs...did I get taken? :-(

[Ludichris]

Okay my Pontiac brethren, I need some cheering up here - I just bought my '05 SE after my '97 SE threw a rod, most likely due to the mechanic not changing the oil after a UIM/LIM and plenum repair, but being that it was my girlfriends and her family's mechanic, not only is it not provable, but I'm not even going to pursue it because it's just too awkward. So I bought this '05 SE, and I'm just uncovering more and more things that need done to it, and it's starting to depress me. This is my first post '00 Bonnie, but I've had a '92 SSEi, '93 SE, '97 SE, and now this one. The '92 and '93 both got totaled in car accidents, the '97 threw the rod, which leads me to this one. I was really excited the day I drove it home - very clean aesthetically inside and out, with just a couple very minor blemishes. That is, of course, until 46 hours after I bought it and someone backed into it while I was in the store, cracking the rear bumper cover, but that isn't the cars fault.

So please, help me put this into perspective, because most of this stuff, that I've uncovered so far anyway, is typical routine maintenance stuff and I shouldn't get too bent out of shape (no pun intended) about it, and I know that any used car is going to need "something", but I just pray this list doesn't get much longer than this. So here we go:

It will need new tires by probably mid-summer or sooner

Needs complete back brakes (pads/rotors)

Needs rear shocks replaced and/or an alignment (I'm starting with an alignment, this Saturday)

Trouble code P0455 just registered today, and I have to chase that down (REALLY hoping it isn't too expensive)

It appears that the UIM/LIM gaskets haven't been done yet, so I will need to get those done

Needs spark plugs/wires (already bought today, I just need to put them in)

It's acceleration, butt dyno, overall engine smoothness, etc. is CRAP compared to my '97 (really hoping the plugs and wires will smooth that out - Belden premium wires, NGK Iridium plugs)

I'm losing coolant, I don't know where from yet, at least...I added coolant to the overflow reservoir, and it magically disappears.

That's pretty much it, that I've found so far, but isn't that enough for something you just bought that is your only transportation??

It comes with a six month/6,000 mile warranty from A.S.C., and as I read through it, I might be able to get the coolant leak and the UIM/LIM gaskets covered under it, but I've never dealt with a warranty on ANY car I've ever had (read: No car I've ever bought came with any warranty), so I don't know if something has to go to complete failure before they will honor it, or if it can show signs of failure or deterioration and they will still honor it. Although having the warranty is part of why I bought this particular car, I have my doubts that they won't find and exploit any loophole possible not to honor the warranty. When I saw that it came with a warranty, I thought, "They must have checked it over really well, and repaired all the minor things that needed repaired, or else they wouldn't warranty it." ...is that naive or what?! :(

I'm just really bummed, because my little 2 year old son lives 200 miles away, so my car needs to be dependable to make that trip at least once a month, and I'm pouring money into this thing that I just bought after my '97's engine gave out, but I want some honest feedback here - is it as gloomy as it seems, or being that the car is very clean, very nice and just needs a little TLC, am I still doing okay with it? That "service engine soon" light that came on today sort of pushed me over the edge. I am hoping it's just a bad gas cap, but I checked the gas cap and it was on tight, and I traveled about 280 miles without touching the gas cap, before the service engine light came on. Can't I just have a dependable car that isn't a money pit for once?

Sincerely,

A Bonneville lover who currently has a love/hate relationship with car troubles in general.

[01bonneSC]

Sounds just like maintenance items to me.

Are you sure its P0455?

http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... =51&t=8893

[00Beast]

The P0455 isn't going to be expensive per-se, but might be a bear to track down. First step will be to inspect vacuum lines on the engine and inspect the fuel filler-neck for corrosion.

Might as well have the brakes and shocks done at the same time, probably cost $300 or so.

Coolant could just be the elbows. Inspect the passenger side of the engine for leaks, and figure out your warranty and get it fixed through that.

Check for vacuum leaks, make sure the air-filter is clean and replace the plugs and wires to start on your rough running.

[01bonneSC]

Ed, what is P0455?

Obviously EVAP, but what?

[Ludichris]

Ed, what is P0455?

Obviously EVAP, but what?

Yeah, I'm sure: http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... 18&t=31326

What's causing it...well, that's something else.

[01bonneSC]

Ok, well lets keep the check engine light stuff in the other thread then and not clog up this one with that.

Id get your LIM gaskets done, very well could be where your coolant is escaping if you dont have any visual leaks. Have you popped the rad cap off and see if the radiator was full? (dont do it while the car is HOT)

[yonkerse]

Most of it sounds like normal maintenance to me. Depending how busy your schedule is, most of the repairs can be done in a weekend with basic tools and you can avoid some of the mechanic expenses. The car is over the 100k mark and some things need to be replaced.

Don't get bummed with the car. Get these few issues worked out and it will serve you for many years to come.

My coolant elbows leak slightly when the car sits for long periods of time. There is generally a small pool of coolant on the LIM after sitting over night. As soon as the car is warmed up..they never leak again...or it just burns off since everything is hot. Certainly go after the warranty and try getting as much covered as possible. Be tough with them and hold your ground..might be surprised with there reactions...just my $.02.

[00Beast]

His problem is he lives in an apartment and would be working in a parking lot...

[01bonneSC]

Can you list EVERYTHING your warranty covers?

[Ludichris]

Can you list EVERYTHING your warranty covers?

Yes, I can! I'll just transcribe it just as it's stated on the warranty. Here we go:

Factory type coverage:

Includes all items covered under the manufacturers original coverage except for those items listed under "items not covered" on service agreement.

Because we cover so many parts we could not possibly list all the components. Instead we list the small number of things that are not covered. For example: oil, brake shoes, belts, hoses, tires, tune up items, etc. Please read Service Agreement for complete details.

With all of our coverages, you have 24 hour emergency roadside service. Including towing, flat tire assistance, gasoline and fluid delivery, jump starting, lock out and more for the entire length of the agreement!

Rental car allowance is also provided on all plans to get you back on the road quickly.


Drivetrain "Plus" Coverage:

Engine: Internally lubricated engine parts consisting of: Crankshaft and bearings, oil pump pickup/screen and tube, pistons, piston rings, wrist pins, connecting rod and rod bearings, timing gears and chain or belt, timing tensioners/guides, balance shafts, camshaft and camshaft bearings, push rods, rocker arms, rocker arm shafts and hydraulic lifters, intake and exhaust valves, valve springs, cylinder head gaskets. Engine blocks are also covered if mechanical failure was caused by the above listed parts.

Automatic transmission: Gears, input and output shafts, bearings, front pump, planetary assembly, sprags, governor assembly, valve body, torque convertor, transmission case, overdrive carrier, reaction carrier, center support, parking lock actuator, stator and stator shaft, separator plate, pressure regulator valve, dipstick and filler tube.

Drive axle assembly (front or rear wheel drive): Consisting of: Drive shaft, ring and pinion gears, pinion bearings, side carrier bearings, carrier assembly, thrust washers, axle, axle bearings, and limited slip clutch pack assembly. Universal and CV joints.

Seals and gaskets: Cylinder head gaskets, all other seals and gaskets are covered in conjunction with repair of above listed components.

Plus:

Cooling: Water pump (limited to one half parts and labor costs)

Electrical: Alternator, starter and voltage regulator (limited to one half parts and labor costs)

24 hour roadside assistance: blah blah blah!

Rental car: blah blah blah



Deluxe Coverage: All parts listed in Drivetrain Plus and all items below (This is the one I have):

Air conditioning: Compressor, clutch and coil assembly, evaporator, accumulator and condenser, if factory installed, evacuation and recharge.

Front suspension: Upper and lower control arms, upper and lower ball joints, steering knuckle, wheel bearings, control arm shaft, and bushings (coverage on vehicles with less than 85000 miles at time of purchase).

Steering: Power steering pump, steering gear housing and it's internal parts and rack and pinion assembly.

Brakes: Master cylinder, ABS master cylinder, vacuum booster, wheel cylinders, disc brake calipers, hydraulic lines and fittings.

Cooling: Radiator, fan clutch, water pump and cooling fan motor.

Fuel delivery: Fuel pump, fuel sending unit, fuel tank, fuel injectors and metal fuel lines.

Electrical: Battery, engine operation computer, voltage regulator, alternator, front/rear wiper motors, wiper module, window motors, seat motors, ignition module, ignition coil, distributor, starter, starter solenoid, and door lock actuators. Manually operated switches for above listed parts.

Seals and gaskets: Cylinder head gaskets, all other seals and gaskets are covered in conjunction with repair of above listed components.

EDIT: I read the warranty before I bought the car, and realized that it covers a lot of things that weren't likely to be wrong with the car. It wasn't what the warranty covered, so much as that it even came with a warranty, I just figured that they gave it a thorough inspection, even if just to make sure that they would NOT have to cover those things...it was more about peace of mind, but if anyone sees anything I should jump on from that warranty, I'm all over it, just let me know!

http://www.ascwarranty.com
800 264 5090
PO Box 2400
Mountain Home, AR 72654-2400

[Ludichris]

Well, after work today, right there in my work parking lot, I quickly did the front 3 spark plugs and wires. The back three will be done tomorrow, I just wanted to take advantage of no rain, and it took me about 15 minutes. They looked kind of bad. Thankfully they looked within the confines of "normal", but in need of replacing for sure! Can anyone tell me, in the picture below, is that an original plug do you think? I only drove about 10 miles with only 3 new plugs/wires, and I know it's only half the job, but I could start to feel the engine wake up...kind of excited to get the other three swapped out. I used Belden premium wires and NGK IX Iridium plugs. Here's one of what I pulled outta there- yuck!:

[00Beast]

That is definitely original, and NOT within spec. That is a HUGE gap, and once you replace the back three plugs it's gonna purr like a kitten.

[yonkerse]

That is definitely original, and NOT within spec. That is a HUGE gap, and once you replace the back three plugs it's gonna purr like a kitten.

I agree!! Anxious to see your response once others are in!!

[Ludichris]

That is definitely original, and NOT within spec. That is a HUGE gap, and once you replace the back three plugs it's gonna purr like a kitten.

Good to have confirmation they are original. I just meant "normal" as in not running hot, not oily, no carbon buildup, not glazed, etc. It looks like the engine has been firing in a healthy way, that's all I meant....I know that gap is huge for sure.

[Ludichris]

That is definitely original, and NOT within spec. That is a HUGE gap, and once you replace the back three plugs it's gonna purr like a kitten.

I agree!! Anxious to see your response once others are in!!

I'm excited too. I'm hoping tomorrow when it gets the alignment that the alignment will stay in place for awhile, which will take care of it thinking that it's a leap frog and jumping to the left on every bump. If that goes well, I'll be a lot more comfortable with the car. I'm excited to see how the throttle response and overall feel of the car changes after the other three plugs! That "service engine soon" light and the evap issue are buggin' me, but I'll have to be patient with that. If I can have a car that has some pizazz and doesn't feel all loose in the back end...I'll survive 'til I can tackle the other stuff later. I will definitely report back.

[01bonneSC]

It's not exactly cheap, but a dealer can do a "smoke" test to see where your EVAP system has a leak.

How do your vacuum hoses and elbows look?

[Ken_W]

I had to deal with many of these same issues when I first bought my Bonne. The good news is that once you get each item fixed, they stay fixed (as long as you use good-quality parts as recommended here at the Club). I would prioritize everything that needs to be done, and then start going after them one at a time. As you get each item resolved, you will feel increasingly better about the car, as you have already seen with the plug replacements. One particularly good-feeling milestone is when all the dash warning lights go out and stay out.

Some of the items are more urgent than others. Some can go unresolved for a long time. By handling them one at a time, you can budget out the costs better, instead of getting hit with a big bill all at once, and also do research for any items you want to go after yourself.

If you don't feel comfortable jacking the car up in your parking lot, you could restrict the do-it-yourself work to cabin and over-the-fender work, and farm out the lower work to a shop. If you find a shop that will install your parts, you can save it a bit by purchasing the parts yourself at a lower cost, and also getting good parts instead of "mystery parts" at shop marked-up prices.

This all takes time, however. Some people would rather just pay a shop to do everything. If you have more money than time, this might be be worth considering. It depends on your personal situation.

Ken_W

[2003BlackSapphireSLE]

the leapfrog is caused by the shocks so dont expect the alignment to fix it. just dont wanna see you spend money you dont have to. you will get thru it in time. these cars are all money pits in their own ways, but that hasn't stopped me from buying pontiacs. keep it up your on the right track there all typical problems.

[Ludichris]

I really appreciate the encouragement guys, thank you. I believe ANY used car is a money pit to a certain extent. Every last one of them is going to need some things done, and Black Sapphire, you're right, these are all typical problems. I just got really discouraged after somebody cracked my rear bumper cover 46 hours after buying it, and then that service engine light came on....and it was like there was a black cloud over my car I just bought...with a car payment, you know?

I just got back from getting the alignment done, and the rear three plugs put in (sorry...it's raining/snowing here, I don't have a garage, and didn't feel like messing with it in this particular instance). So here are the results with what was done: The car rides A LOT smoother. I feel what you guys are talking about where it doesn't solve the issue 100%, but the ride is a lot smoother, the back end doesn't feel all loose and sloppy, it just floats a little too much now instead of being a more rigid ride, that's where the shocks come in, but it doesn't do this GIANT HOP to the left anymore on bumps, it just feels like old suspension now, which to me, I can live with quite a bit easier than the previous symptoms. They said struts, but I'm thinking I'll start with shocks since that's A LOT cheaper. So, on the alignment, it made a difference. They didn't have the "before" specs to give me, only the sheet that had the "after", but I'd be happy to scan it and put it up if it matters at all.

So now all six spark plugs and wires are replaced. I wasn't as impressed with this result. However, I still have not gutted the air box or changed the fuel filter. Once those two things are done, I will have done everything I had done to my '97. Did I notice any more throttle response or more "balls" from the engine? A little, yeah, but it wasn't a night/day difference from when only 3 plugs were changed, but it WAS a night/day difference from before ANY of the plugs were changed, yes. My main comparison is between this and my '97, which, when it threw the rod, had 225K miles on it and in retrospect - ran like a CHAMP. This engine has 147K. It should have more balls than it does, but I also remember that I noticed a difference after I gutted the 97's air box. So, that's next.

Question: I notice the overall airbox design is different in the post 2000's design - does anyone know if the baffling in the post 2000 airboxes is any more restrictive than in the pre 2000's? Just curious.

Question: Does the PCM have to reset or "re-learn" at all after plugs and wires are changed? If so, how long does this take? The reason I ask, is because from the mechanic to my place is only about 8 miles/12 minutes or so. If the PCM has to do any resetting/re-learning, maybe I'll still notice an increase in performance if I drive it longer.

In any case - I would call today a success, simply because the car rides a lot better, and yes, I do notice an increase in engine performance, although not as much as I had hoped. I'm just glad it's not jumping to the left on EVERY bump anymore. Just hope the alignment STAYS in place. Onto the next one...probably the air box, when I find time, which won't be today. Again, thanks for the encouragement guys. I'm going to post a thread in the general discussion area as to how I got turned on to Bonnevilles in the first place. It's a roommates fault that I had back in '97, which has led to the purchase of four Bonnevilles since then. :-D

[00Beast]

The PCM won't need to re-learn the plugs. Change the fuel filter, clean the throttle body, make sure the air-filter is cleaned, and have the O2 sensor replaced. Then we can go from there.