1st post, Engine swap questions

[zachxbass]

Hi everybody, I've been lurking on here for a while now, and finally decided to join and post. First let me say i know very little about cars in general. I've replaced several starters (on different cars), alternators, simpler things like that, but no real engine work.

I have a 1996 bonneville SE that has a seized engine. I am going to have a used engine swapped with my bad one. Obviously someone else is doing it for me (although i'm gonna help when i can for the experience).

While they are putting the new engine in what things should i go ahead and check, replace, do, etc...

I plan on having them check/ replace the LIM and UIM, and the plastic elbows associated. What else should we do? transmission fluid change (no flush i'm assuming because i doubt if it's ever been changed in all 160,000 miles)

any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[J Wikoff]

It's not the LIM you need to change, just the gaskets between the LIM and the heads. Get the aluminum set from Felpro or GM.

[zachxbass]

thanks for the quick response. i assume that the GM/ Felpro gaskets are something i can get at most major parts stores (autozone, advanced auto parts)

[J Wikoff]

More places will have the Felpro set.

[BonneMe]

Make sure you have a quality UIM /EGR stove pipe setup. I'd guess your engine seized from coolant in the oil, and that was most likely from the UIM failure?

[zachxbass]

that's my guess... i only had the car for maybe 6 months and never checked the uim ( didn't know much about the engine at the time)

I'm definitely going to do it right this time. Luckily I know a guy that is very knowledgeable with the 3800. He's gonna do the work for me (i'm gonna help/watch when i can so i can learn a little). Only bad thing is he can't start the work until the 24th. He's says he should be able to do the swap in a weekend (him and the rest of the shop that is)

We're gonna replace the uim/ gaskets/ etc... whether they need it or not, i don't wanna take any chances. This will be the most babied bonneville in Ohio.

BonneMe, i love that 330i you have BTW.

[BonneMe]

I'd get a good Dorman Upper and maybe sleeve it too. Good gaskets, and perhaps a few other things like a new water pump/timing chain, etc.

Thanks for the comments, got a big thread here if you haven't seen it... viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26780

[zachxbass]

it's funny you mentioned your thread on the BMW because i just looked at that earlier before checking this post again.

I really wish i knew more about working on cars so i could do more stuff myself and know what to look for when buying cars, I've had extremely bad luck with cars, blown 3 motors in about 5 years. 2 were on the same car! (chevy lumina, go figure)

I'm gonna check out all the things like the water pump, timing chain, belts, alternator, all that kinda stuff and replace anything that's questionable.

We found a 50K engine and an 80k at the same salvage yard we're gonna check out soon. My mechanic guy estimated that if everything goes good it should be about $1600 - $1800 for the whole thing, taxes, labor, parts etc... Absolute worst case scenario about $2000 - $2200. Thats if we need to replace EVERYTHING, pumps, hoses, wiring, belts, starter, basically everything under the hood associated with the motor.

Does that sound like a decent deal? The lumina motor i replaced cost about $1500- $1600 if IIRC. that was a 96, and was about 5 years ago i think.

I could probably go cheaper but i think that even if i spent $2000 it would be worth it as i would have a 50k engine, new everything, etc... should be good for another 150K if i baby it.

[94SilverSSEi]

Go for a series 3 motor.

Much cheaper and can be had with lower miles.

And there is no chance of a previous leak on it because it had the updatd gaskets.

[zachxbass]

will a series 3 be a direct swap... or at least close enough to where it won't be any harder? As long as there's no custom parts to make (at least nothing difficult) i may do that.

What type of things will i have to do differently if i go with a series 3?

looked up some prices real quick and it appears you are right. About the same, or cheaper, with much less mileage. as long as it's not going to be a huge amount of work/ time i think i'll go this route... Anyone else think i should go this route?

[94SilverSSEi]

will a series 3 be a direct swap... or at least close enough to where it won't be any harder? As long as there's no custom parts to make (at least nothing difficult) i may do that.

What type of things will i have to do differently if i go with a series 3?

looked up some prices real quick and it appears you are right. About the same, or cheaper, with much less mileage. as long as it's not going to be a huge amount of work/ time i think i'll go this route... Anyone else think i should go this route?

I personally have not done a series 3 swap, (yet that is) BUT I have heard lots about it through this forum. IIRC, you just need to swap over the UIM (of course, you will want a brand new dorman one or similar) and throttle body from the old engine, possibly accessories too? Not sure on those.

But it is pretty straight forward.

Also, if you look into buying an engine that will be shipped to you or possibly driving a little ways to get one it may pay off.

I know a while back I was looking at a series 3 and my local salvage yard (proabably 20 mins away) wanted $1000 for a series 3 with like 80k on it.
Where as, I could drive about 2 hours and get one for $550 with 20k miles on it.

Just saying, if you do a little research or take a little extra time, it could save you some money.

[zachxbass]

thanks for the info guys... i'm gonna talk to my mechanic and see what we can come up with. got price qoutes from him and if i go with a 50k series 2 it will cost about $1800. Thats engine, parts, labor, taxes, everything. I'm gonna check on the series 3 though. Part of the debate is just time. If it's gonna take an extra month to find/ swap a series 3 i'll probably just go with the series 2 (unless it's alot cheaper). I've been without a car for a few months now so i'm ready to be back on the road. I'll post up when we figure out what the plan is and get started.

maybe i'll get lucky and we'll find a series 3 with the supercharger for the same price I doubt it, but i can dream

[Bing]

Look at Car-part.com or LKQ online, I bought mine from LKQ and have had no issues.

Heres what I did and learned along the way:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23791

Everything is pretty much covered in there regarding the swap. Prices are starting to go up on the series III, but they will be way cheaper and easier to find. If you get a 06 or newer You'll be pretty much guaranteed that the motor never had the LIM leak. I believe 05 was the last year they used the black plastic LIM gaskets.

Heres a link to LKQ online and the selection they have at the moment.
http://www.lkqonline.com/custom/product ... &year=2007
If the upper link isn't working, just select a 07 grand prix and then (engine assembly, vin 2).
http://www.lkqonline.com/custom/product ... Grand+Prix

Heres the car-part site with A LOT of 3800's.
http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search. ... serPage=20

Hope this helps you out.

[zachxbass]

actually, car-part.com was where we found the two series 2 engines. thanks for the links... some very helpful info in that thread. I'll check out LKQ as well.

I must say, this has been one of the most helpful and friendly forums i have been on. I'm not even a huge car guy honestly, but ever since i start looking on this forum i've come to appreciate my Bonneville a lot more... it's definitely my favorite car I've ever had, and I'm pretty sure I'll be keeping it for many many years, if not forever. It's worth a lot more to me than what i could sell it for so i may as well keep it I've already decided that when i buy a second car it's probably going to be either another Bonneville, or possibly a Grand Prix or Grand AM. Leaning towards Bonneville though. Unless a Mustang fastback comes along for an amazing price, then i may buy that... OK enough rambling

[zachxbass]

just to update, car is in shop now, old engine being pulled, new engine arrives friday, and i should be driving again by sunday, spent more money than i probably should have, but it's worth it to me. $2200 for a 50k engine, all new belts, hoses, UIM/ LIM gaskets (felpro i think, maybe dorman though i forget) new alternator, starter, etc... basically everything under the hood is getting swapped out for new / rebuilt parts. Before the engine blew i had all new brake lines, ABS unit, etc replaced, as well as fixed rear control arm, and u joint, and a few other things. So basically my whole car will be new except the tranny. If i would have known what i would have been spending before i bought the car i would have gotten something else, but since i already put so much into it when the engine went out i figure i may as well... I wouldn't be able to buy a nicer car for $2200 than what i will have now. At least i know that 90% of the car probably won't fail in the next 15 years.

[J Wikoff]

Make sure they are putting in the aluminum LIM gaskets.

[zachxbass]

yep, he is... one of the things i made sure to adamantly express. He's also touching up a few minor things he found along the way.... One of them is my brake lines, they had been completely re-done last summer by Monroe Muffler, and Brake, who used to be my go to shop, usually treated me well and did decent work. Well i guess when they re- did the brake lines they just kind of left them hanging there, not real secure, so my guy is gonna secure them better. A few other minor things like that. Should have it tomorrow or the next day... soooo excited! Finally on the road again after like 4 - 5 months (feels like a year)

[Bing]

I'm assuming with that kind of mileage that the motor is a series III. Don't forget about motor and tranny mounts while your in there. Especially the rear tranny mount under the drivers feet, that one can and is a real son of a B to change out with everything installed.