Gen 2 M62 swapped to Gen 3 M62 Anyone done it?

[Drewster]

i found a good deal on a decent Gen 3 M62. so i went and swapped out the leaking Gen 2 in my Park Ave Ultra. It wasnt till i went to change the maf screens that i realized that the Throttle bodies were different sizes as is the EGR.
i was able to get it to run. im in the process of getting the intake tubing to work. i used a washer and gasket to seal the EGR better on the blower housing. i still need to get the proper MAF (probably why it runs rough).

Anyone done this before to give me some advice?

Andrew

[J Wikoff]

Use the larger Gen 3 TB.
Use the 94/95 MAF.
Get a Series II L67 FPR or adjustable one.
Get a scan tool.
Get a Mini AFC or a custom tune.

I had pretty good, but not quite perfect results with the above. Always seemed like I had a vacuum leak somewhere at random times.

[J Wikoff]

I'd also use the Gen 3 pulley until you get the fueling dialed in.

[Drewster]

did you find any difference in the EGR pipe to Blower? On the Gen 2 the EGR pipe hole is 1/2 in and the Gen 3 it is 5/8in. i used a gasket and some washers to get it to seal but will probably burn out sometime soon. What did you do if you found the same difference in the SSE?
Whats a mini AFC? where would you get the tune changed? are you talking ECM reprogram?

thanks for the help
Andrew

[J Wikoff]

I used part of an EGR gasket and high temp RTV for the EGR pipe because of the hole size difference. I don't think it's perfect though.

A mini-AFC is a little module that plugs into the MAF and lets you alter the output signal. ZZP has them for the Series II and they work with the Series I. They work pretty well if you tinker with them long enough and watch the fuel trims.

Sinister performance is pretty good to work with, I hear, to get a new chip tuned for the PCM.

[willwren]

You have a very dangerous combination, and you are VERY likely to have coolant leaks between your Gen2 throttle body and the Gen3 supercharger. Do NOT run the Gen2 pulley on that Gen3 until you have some way of scanning for KR. Going further this direction will be far more costly than keeping it Gen2 in the long run.

There are only two cars running swapped on this Forum. J Wikoff and one of mine. It's not a setup that you'll find trouble free, and it will never perform perfectly like a 94/95 car that came with the setup. I suggest your best bet is finding a better Gen2 supercharger. What was leaking? That could have been an easy fix.

In addition, the EGR runs VERY hot. You should question your method of sealing. John's advice above about cutting a section of an OEM EGR valve gasket is exactly what I've used for years. I always keep a couple around for this purpose.

[Drewster]

I got the topside of a 95 SC Riviera for 125$, intake manifold, SC ,throttle body, injectors, fuelrail, and FP regulator. unfortunately the MAF was gone already. looks like the SC was already rebuilt as it had a company rebuild tag on it. i do have a scan tool but the ALDL port is right above the brake and dont feel comfortable crusing it that way.
I have thought of just fixing the snout seal on the Gen 2 but it runs pretty quick with the Gen 3.

For the EGR. sounds like you are using the graphite gasket? the same one the EGR sits on but cut it down and move it to the SC, right?

[willwren]

It's not graphite, it's a steel mesh coated in lead, but yes, that's the gasket. You cut a teardrop shaped gasket using the center hole. You'll find two holes near each other to cut around. One for the stovepipe, one for the bolt.

Until you can scan for KR, you're at risk. My connector is in the same spot. Hook it up and loop the cable over the column for safety. KR is a critical issue on all L67's.

[J Wikoff]

The FPR for the 95 is actually a lower pressure than the one your car originally had, and won't be as well suited to help the PCM overcome the need for extra fuel. I'd really get a Series II L67 FPR, or at least use your original (assuming it's working properly).

I've got big feet and don't have any problems when I drive with the scan tool. My biggest issue is not wondering off the road while looking at the data...

[willwren]

You know you can replace that seal without even removing the blower from the engine, right?

[Drewster]

willwren.....replacing the EGR seal? yep should be no problem since you told me how to .
J Wikoff....good idea for the FPR will it fit into the fuel rail properly? i have the stock 92 series I in now.

i put the new reman Delco MAF in yesterday. it idles much better than the 92 MAF but boggs down alot a little past 1/4 throttle. not quite sure whats happening yet. will get the scan tool on and drive it soon.

[J Wikoff]

The FPR will go right in. I'd do it soon. I bet it's lean.

[pbrktrt]

Drewster, if you still need a TB off a 95 Riv let me know. I think i have one stored at my buddy's garage.

[willwren]

No, the NOSEDRIVE seal can be replaced on the car without removing the supercharger.

[Drewster]

got the car on the scan tool today. no knock, extreamly rich though...950 on the O2s 150 on the BLM
think i will check boost, fuel pressures next and repair the header leak.
also showing Quad Driver 1 = BAD not sure what that means but it was not "OK"

not sure what the TPS is suppose to be set at, was at .52 to 4.35 i would set my 86 regal to .40 to 4.70

[J Wikoff]

150 means it's adding fuel, and I think 150 is maxed out (IE the PCM is adding all it can). You want 128 in general.

You unhooked the battery when you did the swap, right?

[willwren]

You can throw a QDM fault if your foot is on the brake with some scantools. If you have a crack, pull both manifolds (they're not headers) and the crossover. Remove all three heat shields. You have more, and they will cause KR.

EXHAUST MANIFOLDS:
All Series 1 exhaust manifolds (especially the L67 Supercharged) crack with age. Find me an owner that says they’re not cracked, and I’ll show you an owner that either had them repaired already or didn’t look at them close enough with them removed from the car. The cracks are very small and hard to find. This topic is a good example of this problem: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23880
And a related Techinfo article: http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... =44&t=1660
This article details all the ‘motor killers’ you need to address before even thinking about running a smaller pulley on the supercharger, not to mention any other go-fast mods, either bolt on or custom.

[Drewster]

thanks for the tuning/ manifold link. i reset the PCM, still running rich. ive got 43psi Fuel Pressure with key on engine off. and 48psi, running, with vac line off of regulator. (open port covered). ill get another set of manifolds and repair and go from there.
Looking into chip reprogram but can give better info if manifolds are leak free.
Thanks for the info will repost with repaired manifolds.
Andrew

[willwren]

I predict you will fight the tune and spend far more than the cost of a new nosedrive seal.

Neither John nor I are running a perfect tune to this day, and I'm running an AFC and an adjustable FPR. You are going to simply have to come to grips with the fact that it's never going to run perfectly. The hybrid top end is not nearly as simple as it seems.

[Drewster]

repairing and reinstalling the Gen2 blower is always a good option still need to fix the exhaust manifolds regardless. thanks for your honestly. i still like power, even if its a 4 door family car.