Front end woes! - August 24th video added

[repinS]

Agreed, it just strikes me as weird that it doesn't change with wheel speed. It'll either clunk or clunk-clunk-clunk at the same frequency more or less. On occasion I can be stationary and get a single clunk out of it by steering.

The fact that it got worse after a drag day says to me that axles or mounts are likely, but it's hard to make a sure diagnosis. And heck, it could even be both - the clunks can sound different depending on how I turn, accelerate, or decelerate.

[Jrs3800]

Do you get any shakes at speed or at any certain speed?

[repinS]

I had some wobbles at 70mph after installing the Mustang wheels, but after rebalancing they went away... that's about it.

Things were also fine at 90mph going down the track... and that's the other thing. The car drives GREAT, everything is tight - it just makes that low speed noise.

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

Check the dogbone for play. If you know somebody with an impact, lots of extensions and a few jacks, the dogbone can be in and replaced in a few hours. My dogbone clunked whenever letting off the gas. I found it was shrunken and could move back and forth despite looking just fine.

Re-reading your description, I'd say it's your axles going on you. The clunk changing with speed and direction points in that direction.

Any way to have them shipped to somewhere in the US, and you pick them up? I'm not in the Buffalo area anymore, else I'd offer.

[repinS]

3/8", 1/2" (several), and 3/4" impact guns, 25 gallon compressor, extensions galore (both normal and wobble), pullers, big effin' sockets, jacks and jackstands, you name it Dad used to be a Millwright and normally helps the technically-knowledgable but inexperienced me do the work. But we're both at a loss on this one. After the tierod job I suspected the dogbone - I had my dad rock the car back and forth and I was looking underneath and didn't see any play. Did you see the problems on yours before or after removal?

With regards to the axles, it doesn't seem like the clunk changes with speed. I can get on the throttle at a medium pace and it'll clunk the same as if I got on it heavier. All the boots are good and not torn. Can a CV joint clunk when moving vertically with suspension travel and not with wheel rotation?

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Axle pricing and type. Here comes the interesting part. I called up my local Napa:

$110 each for re-manufactured Cardone, lifetime warranty, have to verify what it goes down to after returning cores
$140 each for NEW Cardone, lifetime warranty

Fellow on the other end of the phone recommended the re-mans considering that the new ones are random Chinese units and the re-mans are done in North America. Not sure if there's any truth to that, or whether it matters. In any case I'd probably go with the rebuilt ones for price and same warranty. With Rock Auto if I ship them to the US I'll save a bit, but I don't think the gas money, border crossing, and hassles with shipping cores back is worth the trouble. Thanks though!


(On another note, I drove the car 50 miles tonight and it did so BEAUTIFULLY at 60-70mph. You never woulda known anything was wrong until you got to low speed maneuvers.)

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

My dogbone only proved bad after removal. Doing it was a "I'm bored on a Saturday morning" exercise since I had bought it several months previously. I got a surprise when the rubber clunked back and forth when I shook the old dogbone, lol!

[repinS]

Thanks Dave, I'll pull the dogbone and see what's what. Took a drive with dad today and we both confirmed that the clunk frequency is INDEPENDENT of wheel speed and is only heard below 25-30mph.

Intermittently, when rocking the steering back and forth at idle, you can have your ears down by the wheels and hear a clunk-clunk each time. A friend suggested a bad steering rack, but it's hard to believe when the steering is tight like a new car, outer tie rods are new, and the inner rods are in solid shape. I had a hand on the spring while the clunking happened, there is no binding.

With all the trouble I'm having, I can only imagine how hard it is to diagnose these things online. I'll see what kind of video I can put together.

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

Bad suspension bushing?

[dpcookson]

Have you tried grabbing the tierod or steering knuckle while rocking the steering?
Does your dad have a mechanics stethoscope to help you narrow down where the noise is coming from? http://www.northerntool.com/images/prod ... 875_lg.jpg

[repinS]

No stethoscope, but unfortunately the car really has to be in motion for noises to be heard. Steering is tight - having just done the outer tie rods there isn't any indication of problems there.

We pulled the dogbone mount today - still solid, not broken and no play. With the front up in the air and a jack under the wheel to give some weight, we tried pushing up and down vertically on the passenger side inner CV joint. There was a hint of play... so remanned ones for both sides are on order from Napa, they'll be here in the morning.

I swear if this doesn't fix it...

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

At least you figured out a problem that may be it! It wasn't the dogbone, which is good. Mighty funny that you pulled the dogbone, checked the axles, and they were worn a little.

[repinS]

New CV joints, both sides. The old ones that came out weren't terrible, but weren't good enough to put back in. One of the outers had a bit of play. Lower ball joints were done at the same time. The originals were holding up but were drilled out and replaced regardless. No play, but it wouldn't have been long. No change. Clunk clunk click click.

We noticed a bit of binding and creaking on the passenger side spring/strut when turning the wheel. Everything was freshly removed so this was quick. Removed, disassembled, and reassembled the strut/mount/bering assembly. Binding and creaking gone, but still: Clunk clunk click click.

When jacking up the car, with the change in load off the front right suspension, there is a creaking/clunking. Taking a look at one of the bolts at the TOP of the engine cradle, right near the AC compressor, we saw some shiny metal. It wound up being loose, and it fixed the creaking/clunking when jacking, but not so much when driving at low speeds. It wasn't the smoking gun. I have a feeling I have a series of issues manifesting themselves as one... I think this loose bolt was mimicing the CV joint issue.

So now I have this one big clunk, sometimes I can reproduce it when I'm backing downhill out of a driveway and go over the curb onto the street. It was the one I felt through the floor.

Subframe mounts are next... that's actually the ONLY thing left other than the steering rack which is still tight. we keep verifying that none are broken and there is no movement when jacking or rocking the car, but we'll take some apart and see what's what. It's been raining this weekend so I haven't been able to mount the camera on the car (suction cup) and shoot some video.

I don't like that I've dropped almost $1100 (mostly in parts!!) so far with the hopes of solving this (it all started with struts/strut mount suspicions), but most of the old parts that were replaced were servicable but fairly worn. Not replacing them then and there would probably be a bonehead idea.

[repinS]

Today was nice and I got a chance to shoot a video with the suction cup mount:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzu2jzJ5CE4&fmt=35

You hear the big one right as I start moving. Softer click/clunks as I take it around the block, and one more big one as I back in at the end.

[00Beast]

That is seriously goofy. I guess it's time to do the subframe bushings?

[lowrider0308]

I know the feeling. My truck was making a popping/clunking noise on speedbumps, potholes, low speed turns, parking garage ramps, ect. Anything that flexed the frame or slow tight turns. After $400 tierods didn't fix it, cleaning some frame undercoating away and adding four $2.08 hardened steel washers on the subframe fixed it. There was one other possible cause, which GM said could be a "snap" coming from the body mounts. They have nylon spacers for that. My point is I would check that frame after my recent experience. A combination of uneven undercoating and a need for washers made my truck sound like a clunker until I could figure it out. The noise was addressed by a TSB, but it started right after my 36K warrenty ran out. Good luck in tracking it down!

[repinS]

That is seriously goofy. I guess it's time to do the subframe bushings?

Thats what I'm not sure about. I could throw the subframe mounts and bushings at it thinking that its the cause, just like all the other stuff I've done. And if it doesn't fix it.... :sad5:

The big clunks are at the 0:15, 2:22, and 2:36 marks. Everything while I'm on the road are the smaller ones. They're harder to differentiate with the recording.

[Jrs3800]

Very odd Jerry..

[ChilinMichael]

You completely replaced the strut mounts, right? Also...torquing them properly is VERY crucial. You can replace a strut mount with another and not torque it right (meaning overtighten, for example) and have it do the exact same thing.

[Maymybonneliveforevr]

Do you feel it in the steering wheel Jerry. My clunk sound like it's comming from the front passenger side but I can't feel it in the steering.

[ChilinMichael]

Frank....you might wanna take note to what I said above as well....what you just described matches my strut mount issue. (This is not a sure diagnosis though)