92 SSEi will not turn over

[ColdScrip]

I have about a 2 year old gear reduced starter. Been working perfectly for those two years. Now when I go to start the car it will not turn over. The security light goes out. None of my lights, including the headlights even dim when I go to start the car. I do not hear anything *click* when I go to start the car either.

I really appreciate your help on this matter as I need this thing to start today!

[00Beast]

Check your battery connections. If they're loose they can give power to the lights, but not enough for the starter.

[willwren]

Get a helper. Get a hammer. Lay down in front of the car and tell your helper when to turn the key. When he/she does, hit the starter with the hammer. Not hard enough to dent it, just hard enough to 'free up the guts'. This works quite often when things like this happen.

If you have a meter, make sure you get 12V switching when you try to start on the purple wire on the starter (think it's purple by memory, anyway). Smallest wire on the back of the starter. Make sure you have constant 12V on the big terminal from the battery.

[ColdScrip]

I do not have a buddy atm so I had to make do with what I could.

1. Cleaned with steel wool and Aerosolve the battery connections at the battery terminals and reassembled. No go.

2. Fully recharged battery. No go.

3. 13-14 volts at battery without trying to start. Couldn't try it with trying to start because of lack of second person.

4. The purple with a tan stripe wire that goes to the solenoid was lose. Apparently the lock washer wasn't smooched enough. So I Aerosolved the connections and took off the purple wire. With the purple wire running up towards the hood I was able to get a 12.4 - 12.7 volt reading from it while trying to start the car.

5. I reassembled the purple wire and made sure it was on tight and couldn't be moved by hand anymore. No go.

Because the purple wire was at 12.4 -12.7 V while trying to start the car I am assuming the battery would be around 12V while trying to crank as well.

6. I smacked the solenoid with a wrench a few times then tried to start. Although I couldnt smack it WHILE trying to start I figured this was the next best thing. No go.

7. I still do not hear the solenoid "click" while trying to crank. The reason why the starter was replaced previously was that the starter would click but not start. It would start only if I made it click about 5-20 times.

8. The car also did this same thing yesterday but eventually randomly started and started 3 more times that day flawlessly. Come this morning and it doesn't want to at all.

Next step gentlemen?

[Mechanical Mike]

If you have 12 volts at the purple wire & the solenoid isn't clicking then you either have a bad ground to the engine or a bad solenoid. I'm betting on the solenoid.

[ColdScrip]

Possible that the mating surface of the purple wire and the solenoid contact is corroded and preventing a connection?

Where would I check for the bad ground to the engine? Any specific wire at least...

[Mechanical Mike]

It's possible the screw where the purple wire attaches is corroded. Starters are expensive give it a good cleaning.
The main engine ground is the negative battery cable. Just follow it down to the engine. Clean both ends of the cable.

If you still have the old starter you might be able to use parts from it to fix this one. Let us know.

[Mechanical Mike]

Ignore my comment on fixing the starter, I forget the solenoids can't be taken apart.

[bill buttermore]

I am fortunate to have an old timey auto electric repair shop in my town. When the starter on my '92 SSEi failed to spin several years ago, they rebuilt it for me. The proprietor said the problem was that the solenoid liked to stick on these starters. When he installed the new solenoid, he told me he was careful to lubricate it generously.

I have not personally torn one apart, but from his comments, and what he did to repair mine, it sounds like a person could pull the starter, put it on the bench, and maybe disassemble, clean and lubricate (grease) the solenoid???

Otherwise, if you have confirmed power to the solenoid and to the starter, and you have a good clean ground, it is time to replace the starter.

[willwren]

Smack the solenoid with a hammer a few times. Not hard enough to dent it.

[Mechanical Mike]

Anyone have a source for the solenoids?

Bill - There's about a 1/2" of the solenoid shaft sticking out of the housing. Should be easy to lube it up & work it back & forth. It takes a reverse star bit to remove the solenoid from the starter, however I was able to remove one with a six sided 4mm socket. He could also check the resistance of the solenoid coil, the one I have here shows just under 1 ohm. If it has the correct resistance then the problem is most likely a sticky solenoid.

[ColdScrip]

Heading to work. I will work more on this once I am back.

Bill, you stated to confirm power to the solenoid and starter. I have confirmed the purple wire to the solenoid. There are two other wires. Looks like a ground(?) and one going to the starter itself. Will checking these tell us anything? If so what would I be looking for on those connections?

Will, when I am home from work I will have a second person and I will try smacking it with a hammer while someone else tries to start the car first thing.

I will also check the ground and clean it.

I have a parts car (SSEi so no worries, gear reduced) with a known good starter because it started 3 weeks ago and has thus sat. If needed I will use that one. If that is the case i'll give the one thats not working now a good inspection especially in terms of being able to grease it and see if it works. I am sure if smacking it makes the car start then that may imply it just needs some lubrication.

This is a 2, possibly 3 year old starter. I paid about $150 for it from NAPA. I will check with them for a warranty. I just figured it would take a lot longer to burn out than 2-3 years. It is my daily however.

[bill buttermore]

I don't know what other connections you may find on your starter so I will only address the ones that make the starter work. As Mike mentioned earlier, the small gauge purple wire is the one that supplies 12V+ to the solenoid. A test lamp (brake light bulb) connected between the purple wire and ground should light brightly when you turn the key to start. A 12V reading on a multi-meter on the solenoid wire cannot be used with certainty to rule out defective wiring. That's because a worn ignition switch or other wiring component between the battery and the starter solenoid may be able to pass enough current to indicate 12V on your meter, but not enough to energize the solenoid. If the current available on the little wire is sufficient to brightly light a brake light bulb, it will be sufficient to energize the solenoid. The heavy positive cable on the starter carries hundreds of amps of current to turn the motor when the solenoid closes the contacts inside the starter. The connection for the big positive cable on the starter should be clean and tight. The ground for the starter is made through the starter frame where it attaches to the engine, and then from the engine to the battery through the heavy negative battery cable. That's why you need to check those out as suggested. The connections on that path need to be clean and tight. If those check out okay, and you still get nothing when you turn the key, then you need a new solenoid and/or starter.

If you tap on the solenoid and get the starter to run as willwren advises, that suggests a sticking solenoid.

[ColdScrip]

Thank you all for your help. I have one final question and I would consider this fixed. I wiggled the shifter and the car started. Later on I tried again and it wouldn't. I wiggled the shifter and it started.

Neutral safety switch. What gets me is how I can have 12V on the purple wire yet the neutral shift was preventing it from starting? I figured that switch would prevent the 12V. Perhaps it is what you are talking about bill where it cuts out the bulk of the power but some still gets through for the multimeter.

[willwren]

Start the car in Neutral. The switch should allow it. And it can be adjusted. Sounds like your starter is fine. Wiggle will do you fine for a long time, Neutral may work every time. An adjustment is the best long-term fix.

[ColdScrip]

Start the car in Neutral. The switch should allow it. And it can be adjusted. Sounds like your starter is fine. Wiggle will do you fine for a long time, Neutral may work every time. An adjustment is the best long-term fix.

Thank you very much! Is the adjustment procedure rather long?

[bill buttermore]

Thank you all for your help. I have one final question and I would consider this fixed. I wiggled the shifter and the car started. Later on I tried again and it wouldn't. I wiggled the shifter and it started.

Neutral safety switch. What gets me is how I can have 12V on the purple wire yet the neutral shift was preventing it from starting? I figured that switch would prevent the 12V. Perhaps it is what you are talking about bill where it cuts out the bulk of the power but some still gets through for the multimeter.

Maybe so, and I hope you have found the problem. I learned the hard way not to trust voltage readings alone as a confirmation of adequate wiring. A test light often tells you what you need to know more quickly, and can be fabricated in a few minutes from a length of wire and a brake light bulb. You can confirm your suspected trouble spot if you disconnect the purple wire, connect it to your grounded test lamp, then turn the key to start and wiggle the shifter.

You might want to make sure your switch is adjusted properly. Here is the adjustment procedure for the transmission mounted neutral safety switch from my Chiltons 28200: Place the transaxle control shifter assembly in the NEUTRAL notch in the detent plate. Loosen the switch attaching bolts. Insert a 3/32" drill bit in the service slots. Tighten the bolts to 20 ft-lb. Remove the drill bit.

[willwren]

It's more work to access the switch than it is to adjust it.

Remove the ash tray liner, then the screws you see underneath. Put the shifter in Nuetral (key on, brake on, pull it down), then remove the clip in the front of the shifter handle. Remove the shifter handle. Now you can tilt the console cover up and off the shifter (it pivots at the rear).

[ColdScrip]

Sounds like its pretty simple then. Will be doing it tomorrow. Thanks guys.

[ColdScrip]

Well I must be missing something here. I did all the steps you posted Will and I can not find the switch anywhere. I have the service manual. I know what it is suppose to look like but I do not see it. Am I suppose to take more things off to be able to get to this switch?

Edit: Nvm im thinking I am looking at this wrong. I think the switch is in the engine bay at the other end of the cable. So no need to take apart the center console. Going to go check it out.

Yup its right below the master brake cylinder. Re-assembled console. Going to work and will be bringing home a 3/32 drill bit. Looks very easy to do now. I take it the switch can be fine but the cable itself can stretch over time causing the bit to wear. Of course it could be a combination of that plus wearing of the switch internals.