"Stuffing" a NorthStar

[willwren]

Ed, I've probably driven more Bonnevilles than any member here since 2002. Including 2 GXP's.

Like I said, look back in our history for track times. Running two members on the street from a dig and a roll isn't a comparison that holds much considering what we already have collected. And again, run with your dad. Even if you end up close to neck and neck, what does 100 bucks in mods get the SSEi?




And the GXP asks you "What's a mod?".

[00Beast]

I'm not stating that you're wrong, I'm just stating the results that we got, that differ from your info. I agree with a lot that's been stated, differences in cars, etc. I was just making sure all data was on the table. There's a reason I drive an SSEi and my dad has the GXP. I have the mod-bug, he doesn't.

OP: You wanna go fast, I'll say it again, keep the SSEi. You want a nice car, that sounds great, has a little better handling, nicer interior, and some nice wheels, but can't go much faster than stock? Sell the SSEi and buy a GXP.

[willwren]

Some interesting reading:

http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-Bonnev ... -3863.html

1/4 Mile ET: 15.400
1/4 Mile MPH: 91.000

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkl2clitLv ... 201507.pdf

The Northstar's extra wattage also sealed the Bonneville's second place. Spurs to
the groin, it tackled 60 mph in 6.9 seconds and the quarter in 15.4 at 91 mph with
only minor torque-induced swagger. The 3.70:1 axle ratio tries to compensate for
the cammer V-8's lack of low-end tug, at least relative to the old supercharged 3.8-
liter pushrod V-6 that once powered top-end Bonnevilles. It largely succeeds, but the Bonnie's lithe-shifting four-speed
transmission is one ratio short of driveline nirvana.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2351a.shtml

Engine
4.6-liter DOHC Northstar V-8

Horsepower
275

Torque
300 lb feet

0-60 mph
7.8 seconds

1/4 mile
16 seconds @ 88 mph

60-0 mph
124 feet

EPA Mileage
17 mpg city
24 mpg highway

MotorWeek's
mileage loop
18 mpg
mixed city/highway

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/fe ... index.html

14.5@95 mph

http://www.zinio.com/page/?issue=94529609&pg=71
(about 15 seconds on the bar graph)


http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp ... f=national

0-60 mph 8.57 seconds
1/4 mile 16.50 seconds at 89.51 mph

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkxeHmytLI ... l%3fpage=4

TEST RESULTS: DRY WET
ACCELERATION
1/4-MILE:1 15.07 sec. @ 91.93 mph 15.42 sec. @ 91.53 mph

The references go on and on, and they're all independent tests. Most GXP track times we see are in the 15's and 16's. We know stock SSEi's are a bit better than that. The N* is a good freeway passer, but it's certainly not a stoplight racer.

[ChilinMichael]

So we've gone from a 14.5 to a 15.4 to even a 16 (Because motorweek, when it comes to speed testing, is a JOKE, like most major magazines here...unfortunately we don't have "The Stig"

It just proves my point that you can get insanely different times between different cars, drivers, conditions, etc. They are close enough to never have a definite answer "One is faster than the other"..and besides...the point of this thread is if it's worth it to stuff a Northstar, and on a performance/price aspect...the answer is a definite no.

[SSEi95]

I agree, keep the 3800 / ssei.

As for the N* sitting around... I have a couple ideas...



or...



or...



or...



or...

[BonneMe]

IMO the only good comparisons are 2 cars at the same track on same/similar days. No magazine or published times matter, way too many variables to consider.

[ChilinMichael]

Yup, and as you can see, they differ a LOT, 1.5 seconds on a quarter mile? Jeeez.

[1fatcat]

So he asked me if i'd like to put it in my ride. And we've been considering it... And considering it... I mean, we could do the work but would it be worth it?

99% say, "no". I'm with that 99%

I would suggest selling the engine or finding something else to put it in. Something lighter than a Bonneville and preferably with more room in the engine bay.

Another option is, buy a Caddilac with a clean body and interior but a bad engine for cheap. Install that big chunk of aluminum thats taking up space in the garage and then sell the Caddy...or keep it?

[willwren]

The bottom line (getting back on topic like others) is that no, it's not worth it at all. The N* is not a mod-friendly motor, and the on-track performance just isn't what alot of people would expect from a pretty decent-sized V8.

The performance numbers have been disappointing since the GXP first hit the market. The GXP is nice, there's no doubt about it but they picked the wrong motor for it.

[gonzo4191]

it's your car, if you want the sweet V8 rumble, im all for it, sure it'll take some work, but who cares, if you want it, thats all that matters in my mind, this forum will tell you not to like they do some other things

thats my O2

[willwren]

We tell people things are a bad idea based on well-thought reasoning from our collective experience.

Whether people choose to follow our advice is up to them. But if they ask, don't we all have a right to post our opinion in answer? Isn't that the purpose of a forum? Or should we just say "sure, go ahead" to every question or idea?

[jarvisx2000]

I always thought a northstar in a fiero would be sweet.

[willwren]

An L67 is a much easier fit, and has far more potential in the aftermarket. It's also been done and proven many times over.

[1fatcat]

It's true, watch this.

[ChilinMichael]

LOL!!!!

[00Beast]

The only thing sub-10 second about that video was how fast he put the cover on, LOL.

[ChilinMichael]

That was kinda the point....but thanks for explaining that to us...

[1fatcat]

The only thing sub-10 second about that video was how fast he put the cover on, LOL.

Turn on speakers.

[tan96ssei]

on a side note if you want to upgrade to a large displacement V8 why not look at the grand prix GXP motor? get the 5.3 bolted to that 4T80E and shoe horn that in there. at least the 5.3 is a desendent of the LS motors found in vettes, and camaros so LS parts do bolt on to it. meaning better "motor roar" and mod capable.

[00Beast]

The original topic was that his brother had a Northstar laying around, and they were wondering if it would be a good project. The N* wouldn't have cost him much. A new LS4 is like $6,000. Even used, they're still probably worth $2500.