Cooling

[Sadden]

Wouldnt it be easy to to just take a tranny radiator style cooler and run the fuel through that. and then bulid an icebox around it? Seems like that would be easy and in the summer you could run it out front of the normal rad and when you go to the track then just move it to the icebox...

Is this before or after the dual supercharged engine and repaint?

It seems to easy to not be worth looking into. And the cars not getting pained for awhile. I had to take a bunch of time off do to my grandfathers death. And even with the time off aside i didnt get near the hours i was supposed to. And we all know that i gave up on the twin supercharged idea ages ago. Next time you can keep your sarcasm to yourself.

[lewis26]

Fist of all Sadden, it was a joke. Relax.

Second of all, you have had many posts about your "performance schemes" and I still have yet to actually even see a picture of your car. It was a simple joke, so don't take things so seriously.


Along with that, I seriously doubt any of the cars here are going to see noticeable gains from icing over the fuel. There are just too many other factors to consider about where power is being used to gain power from cooling the fuel.

[dirtracr95]

Along with that, I seriously doubt any of the cars here are going to see noticeable gains from icing over the fuel. There are just too many other factors to consider about where power is being used to gain power from cooling the fuel.

The turbocharger would never have been invented if someone went its just exhaust gas who cares. There is better ways to make power.

How about instead of saying its probably not going to make a difference why dont you try it? Maybe you could add a degree or 2 of timing and still not have KR? No one this site should ever say its not worth it unless they have physically done it.

[lewis26]

How about instead of saying its probably not going to make a difference why dont you try it? Maybe you could add a degree or 2 of timing and still not have KR? No one this site should ever say its not worth it unless they have physically done it.

Because I am not worried about power. I never have been. But I'm smart enough to know that there are many many things you can do that will be much easier and make much more power before you start worrying about cooling fuel.

I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you Freddy, or Sadden on a public forum. It was a simple joke, and you two are taking it far too seriously. If you want to go about trying to cool your fuel a few degrees, then by all means go for it. There are just much better tried and true ways to create much much more power.

[dirtracr95]

Alright well if your not interested in power why are you in this thread? If you dont have something USEFUL to this thread stay out! Seriously this site is a joke when it comes to performance because of people like you clogging up threads with worthless posts about how its not worth it.

Just because you think its worthless doesnt mean someone who has really spent some money to go fast isnt looking and going yea maybe I can gain a little bit more for cheap.

Now lets get back on topic about fuel cooling.

I will be cooling my fuel with a heat exchanger in front of the radiator. But I need to just stay focused on my suspension build right now.

[lewis26]

Because I have my right to express my opinion on car performance. Just because I don't do performance mods to my car doesn't mean I can't comment on other peoples ideas. That's the point of a public forum.

Then leave Freddy. Nobody is forcing you to stay at this "joke" site. /rant

Back on topic, Sadden I think there are much better ways to gain power first. if you have done all the pulleys, headers, intake, porting, cam, rockers, etc. then it might be time to think about this, but for now I would concentrate on tuning up your car and start with the tried and true performance mods before you do something like this.

[dirtracr95]

Then leave Freddy. Nobody is forcing you to stay at this "joke" site. /rant

This isnt the only site im on. This is just the only site that has issues with meaningful discussions towards the topic and not at the person posting it.

The limiting factor on street cars is getting enough oxidizer (air) into the cylinder, not getting enough fuel. As patprimmer was pointing out, the heat capcity of fuel is.54 btu/lb - F and the latent heat of vaporization is 125 BTU/lb. The heat capcity of air is .25 BTU/lb-f. 1 lb fuel vaporized gets 125 BTU cooling, with 15 lb of air this will cool the whole mixture about 30 F. At 30 F thats about 5.5% increase in the amount of air than with out the fuel cooling effect

If the fuel was cooled down by 50 F, that would give 27 more BTU/lb or 21% more cooling or 6 F or 1.0% more air than before.

If you could just cool the air down by 6 degrees you would get the same effect (or close anyway) Drop the after cooler temp from 120 to 110 F and get the same effect.

With dragsters, the oxidizer is in the fuel, so cooling the fuel is also cooling the "air" too.

This might be much more useful with the E85 guys.

[dirtracr95]

heres the Engineers discussing this topic. You may want to be heating the fuel.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=155457

[01bonneSC]

Oi!!!!! Honestly I think that going through the trouble of running your fuel down to a radiator infront of your coolant readiator and back is more trouble and a greater possiblity of leaks than than the net horsepower you would gain by just increasing your cubic inches. Save up some moneys, and stroke your motor when you get the money to do so, sadden. There is no replacement for displacement......ask your dad. You already have a power adder, just as some cubes, a decent cam(probly custom ground), custom PCM tune, headers, exhaust, smaller pulley, and you will have more power than you need for a budget, FWD, 6cylinder street car. Oh and dont forget to build you trans, to get something to hold the power of your stroked engine will be about $3,000 at your local trans shop(yes, it was a guess from just knowing RWD transmissions.)

[2000Silverbullet]

Cooling fuel has some benefits but is not practical for real performance gains.
You would be far better off removing the A/C system thus shaving 100 lbs of weight from the car.

I use fuel to cool my intake charge. By injecting methanol, it cools the charge as it vapourizes.

[Sadden]

Second of all, you have had many posts about your "performance schemes" and I still have yet to actually even see a picture of your car. It was a simple joke, so don't take things so seriously.

Yes well my car is not on the road. With peeling paint. And a busted up front end. Hardly worth "showing off" wouldnt you think. And all im doing is running a few questions and ideas past you all. i dont care if you like them or if i do any of them or not. Just looking for answers. Not opinions and contradictions and arguments.

Im going to come back to this thread later.

[Phantom]

What you might want to do first before trying this is get a few temp sensors and log fuel temp in tank, fuel just before injection, engine temp, and out side temp. That way you can see the difference in temp starting out and rerun the tests after the cooler is in place.

For the cooler you might want to try and find one that you could mount in line with the fuel filter. So it would run from tank to filter to passive cooler. Note doing this you would need to have the fins running from front to back so air can flow easily through the fins.

[Sadden]

probably will do the tests in the coming month or so. I was thinking a tranny cooler for passive cooling and running an icebox in line somewhere. ill have to see though.

[00Beast]

Why are you testing cooling your fuel when it's 40 degrees (F, or colder) outside?

[01bonneSC]

Why are you testing cooling your fuel when it's 40 degrees (F, or colder) outside?

x2!!! Wait till summer.

[SuperSLE]

Here you go:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/1350/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/65125/10002/-1

[Sadden]

Fair enough.
Why not test summer and now

Ah thank you superSLE. Ill be sure to look into those.

[SuperSLE]

Well with the colder temps outside you probably won't be able to tell a difference unless you live in the south part of the country and have racing open year round like down in AZ or something. But you could definately get it installed and working during the colder months so its ready to go when it does get warm.

[Phantom]

If he runs it in the winter it will be a little easier to see just how much the fuel will heat up from engine heat soak.

[SuperSLE]

That's a tough one to measure there. Are there any fuel temp gauges out there? I had to custom make my post intercooler temp gauge and it works fantastic to see if the IC is working. Huge difference when it isn't. Maybe something could be rigged to measure fuel temps.....hummmm