Water pump dying?

[TenGHz]

Guys, got a question for you all. I've been hearing a rattling from my car near the motor. I hear it the loudest when I first turn my car on and the motor is cold. It seems to be loudest at idle, and quiets a bit when I tap the gas (if I'm still parked). I originally thought it might be my catalytic dying. But, today I noticed that while stopped at a red light my temp gauge was up a bit. I checked the actual temp with my ScanGuageII and found that it was up around 225*F. Once I got going again it started dropping quickly and got down to about 204*F before I had to stop again - where it quickly went back up. I came home and let the car idle and watched the temp cycle from 200*F up to 225*F and back down to about 208*F. It repeated this cycle. I popped the hood and sure enough the fans were why the temps would fall again as I believe they kick in at 225*F. I listened for the rattle, and it definitely sounds like it is coming from the passenger side with the serpentine belt. I do not see any coolant leaks, on the ground or on the engine. Coolant level is full.

Today was a rather temperate day, so exterior temps don't explain the rapid rise of temps at idle - it was only about 72*F out.

Would this be the signs of a failing water pump? Something worse? Anyone have these symptoms before?

If it is the water pump, I see I can pick one up locally for $40. According to alldatadiy.com it doesn't look to hard to replace. I would do the work myself, I will change my serpentine belt while I'm at it - might as well, as it has 85k miles on it. Also, of course, I'd need to refill with fresh coolant.

If I replace the water pump myself, what should I know before starting? Any surprises or pretty straight forward as alldatadiy shows? Any other items I should buy/replace while I have the car somewhat apart to fix this?

[myfirstbonnie]

Are you sure it is not a tensioner or pulley?

[Archon]

Much of what you are experiencing with the temperature fluctuations is normal, especially at low or idle speeds. Take the belt off, and try to move the water pump pulley, up/down, side to side, and in and out. There should not be any play. Spin it, and each pully to see if there is any noise, or catching.

[TenGHz]

I will check on these things. The thing that made me wary was how quickly the temps would shoot up. I've never seen them go from 200*F-ish to 225*F to rapidly.

[bonnevillain]

Much of what you are experiencing with the temperature fluctuations is normal, especially at low or idle speeds.

I've never seen my car over 205, maybe 210. and that was going through the mountains with the A/C on. Do you get lots of temp fluctuations?

[Archon]

I sat and ran a test with my scanner on a stock 2000 SSEi last year, just to see what the temperatures would do at idle after the car was warmed up. It varied very much as Josh's is now. Once the vehicle was moving, the variation was much smaller, and didn't get above 110. With the vehicle moving, it not only moves more air through the radiator, but also helps remove some of the engine bay heat that can contribute to the larger temperature swings. The radiators in our cars are relatively small. They do the job, but just barely. Sit and watch it with the car at idle for a while, and I'll bet that you won't see a significant drop in temperature until the fans kick into high speed.

[Ol' Timer]

I've been hearing a rattling from my car near the motor. I hear it the loudest when I first turn my car on and the motor is cold. It seems to be loudest at idle, and quiets a bit when I tap the gas (if I'm still parked).
I listened for the rattle, and it definitely sounds like it is coming from the passenger side with the serpentine belt. I do not see any coolant leaks, on the ground or on the engine. Coolant level is full.


Would this be the signs of a failing water pump? Something worse? Anyone have these symptoms before?

If it is the water pump, I see I can pick one up locally for $40. According to alldatadiy.com it doesn't look to hard to replace. I would do the work myself, I will change my serpentine belt while I'm at it - might as well, as it has 85k miles on it. Also, of course, I'd need to refill with fresh coolant.

If I replace the water pump myself, what should I know before starting? Any surprises or pretty straight forward as alldatadiy shows? Any other items I should buy/replace while I have the car somewhat apart to fix this?

I had those symptoms when I replaced my water pump about 3 years ago. I spent a few extra dollars and bought a Delco WP. I remember that the gasket was a better design than what I scraped off.
Fresh Coolant
New Thermostat maybe
Check the hoses
Check the Cap
New Belt
Should be all ya need.

[TenGHz]

I poked around my engine bay some more on Friday. I don't think it is my water pump any more. It's solid. I loosened the serpentine and there is no play at all. I cannot see any other reason it may be failing. I also realized I didn't have the A/C on when I was noticing my temps jumping up. That would mean that the fans weren't running until I hit 225*F, instead of (what I believe is correct) all the time when the A/C is on. I cannot figure out where the rattle is coming from though - it's too hard to hear over the other engine noises. It almost sounds like it may be coming from the alternator... Can they rattle (bearings) when they're giving up the ghost?

I may just take it to my mechanic Thursday/Friday....

[Archon]

If you have a short piece of hose, put one end near your ear, and another near each pulley and the alternator. That should help narrow things down. A washing machine hose would work. The alternator can rattle, but a squealing noise is more common.

Did you check the pulleys by hand for any play, or "catching" as you spin them? Is the tensioner pretty steady, or is it bouncing around?

[Ol' Timer]

Can they rattle (bearings) when they're giving up the ghost?

That's exactly what it was with my WP. You can run it like that for awhile. But it will get louder and eventually....well.....you know.

[TenGHz]

Nice, I like the hose idea. I didn't think of trying that. I'll see what I can round up. Worse comes to worst I'll use a paper towel roll (lol).

Also, thanks Ol' Timer for your input too.

When I had the belt loosened I didn't spin the water pump or alt or any devices for that matter. I'm realizing now how dumb that was to not to do that. But, it's quick and easy to loosen the tensioner, and I can do it again here shortly. I had just felt for looseness and play. The tensioner felt good and tight though. Before loosening it, I felt for play in it by pressing down on the long unsupported part of the belt and could barely move the tensioner without putting my weight into. So, I don't think it's the tensioner itself doing it, but, again I didn't spin anything to feel for binding. I will have to just loosen the belt and enough to really feel what part is doing it.

I'll do the listening and spinning/binding test and see what that comes up with.

Thanks again.

[TenGHz]

Update - temperatures still haven't been jumping up fast like it did that day... I don't know what the deal was there.

I did end up checking this out further and banged on the catalytic... It was definitely the cause of my rattle. I got it replaced and the noise is gone. Can really feel a lot of lost power that I got back from changing it.