I have to be honest...

[gmman]

you may be saturated with info by now but having recently gone thru this i offer my experience:

had been cherry picking craigs list for weeks looking for a second car. my first choice was bonnevilles 92 and up with a price limit of around $3000. a second condition was that it must have the 3800 engine (i am sold on the reliability having owned two-88 and 96 bonnie). that translated to bonn, buick, or olds.

to make a long story short, i went to look at several that fit that category. most were misrepresented on craigslist. i automatically ruled out any that said minor accident. finally came across a 95 buick pa with 98K for $2900. owner said there were a few quirks. the gas guage was flaky and the keyless remote was questionable. so after a short test drive i bought it.

well, on the way home i smelled gas with turned out to be a serious leak where the quick disconnect gas line connects at the tank. potentially dangerous. the cruise didn't work. the power antenna didn't work. radio casette player didn't work. after sitting for one hour the water pump puked antifreeze. but, the coup de grau was an undercarriage rusted away(the car was carmaxed all its life in Florida so i didn't think to check for undercarriage rust).

my impression of the quality of ride after driving the 96 bonn for years, was sitting in a sagging couch.

conclusion: i am not smart enough to purchase a vehicle off craigslist.

[BlackHawk99]

Thankfully I've had a lot of experience buying cars on craigslist. lol I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing, however!

Anyway... I looked at the PAU last night and test drove it. The car definitely appears to be 11 years old. It's got rust at the bottom of the passenger side doors, and there's a small spot of flaking paint on the hood. Nothing too major, but those were the only exterior defects. The car could desperately use a coat of wax. Looks like it's never been touched in 11 years. The interior was decent. It needed a good cleaning. I don't think there were ever any floor mats used. As a result there's a wear spot into the sheet metal at the heel of the driver's right foot. There's a cassette stuck in the tape deck. Oil pressure on the DIC reads 120 PSI. All other electrical features worked just fine except the power driver's seat. It's jammed all the way back. I think it might be off the track, actually. Probably an easy fix. It needs front passenger side hub cap (the small chrome lug nut cover). There was burning oil smoke billowing out from the front of the engine. I figured that's from leaking valve cover gaskets. But those can be corrected for free thanks to the recall.

It drove really well. Trans was fine. No leaks. AC and all other electronics worked (other than the power driver's seat). Heated seats worked. Sunroof worked. No issues that way. Oh ya, it needed a new battery in the wireless key fob.

But... I made a realization after driving it. I just can't bring myself to driving something like that. No matter how nice it is, or luxorious it may be, or how comfy it is, I still feel 103 years old in it. :sad5: Right then I decided I just can't do it no matter the price. But I didn't want to insult the guy so he asked me what I'd pay for it and I played it off that it needed more work than necessary and gave him what I thought was a very low offer. $2,200. He said he'd call me back and let me know. I felt relieved since he could have very well likely sold it for his asking price. I got 30 minutes down the road and he left me a VM to turn around and come get it for $2,200. I didn't call him back. Then around 10:00 last night he called again and left me another VM wanting to know what time I could come back and get it today. So, I gave it more thought... What I'm going to do is call him back and buy it for $2,200. I'll fix up the quirks to make it road ready. If I like it at that point, I'll keep it. Otherwise, I'm going to curb it (in MI flipping cars is called "curbing"). I don't have the time to fix up and resell a car, but I would do it. This would be the third one. I do much better at flipping houses. lol

So, if everything goes well, I should have it tonight. BUT that's not to say I'm out of the market for a 98-99 SSEi. I've narrowed it down to a 98-99 SSEi, another Regal GS, 98-99 Lumina LTZ, Impala, or a decent GTP. Any Grand Prix makes me nervous given the fact that every punk kid owns one and beats the hell out of it.

[2000Silverbullet]

No matter how nice it is, or luxorious it may be, or how comfy it is, I still feel 103 years old in it.

Hey Old Man! You are your own worst enemy.

If it lasts you a year and you don't have to spend more than $1,000 on it (and I think it will), you got a good deal.

[CMNTMXR57]

I'd buy it, and if I didn't sell it, hang on to it for a year or so until another brilliant government backed car recycling program is announced, and you'll be gauranteed to double your investment vs. something new.

[01bonneSC]

I'd buy it, and if I didn't sell it, hang on to it for a year or so until another brilliant government backed car recycling program is announced, and you'll be gauranteed to double your investment vs. something new.

But if the trans and engine are fine id swap in a real clunker engine/trans before i gave it to the dealer.

[Merrillspontiac]

Id just buy it and drive it till it dies. Its a nice big safe car that will keep your family safe.

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

Heh, going for the geezer-mobile! Oh wait, nevermind...

Honestly, that's a decent price for a car that's good for another few years. Not one for serious modding because of the condition. Since it's a family car, that's fine.

[BlackHawk99]

I'm now the proud owner of a 1998 PAU. Bright white in color. Dark tan interior. She needs some attention, but for only having 95,000 miles for $2,200, I think it was a good buy.

More to come later........

[gonzo4191]

nice buy

and update your siggy!

[GonneVille]

I'm now the proud owner of a 1998 PAU. Bright white in color. Dark tan interior. She needs some attention, but for only having 95,000 miles for $2,200, I think it was a good buy.

More to come later........

Congratz on your purchase! Wish Cody had told me about this thread, I'd have had some input for you...all to the positive. Aside from the leaky strut, everything you've listed is common issues, and for the most part easily fixed. For whatever reason, 97+ PAs have never had the big leak issues that the 00+ Bonnies had, in spite of being based on the same platform. Steering clunk also seems to be much less prevalent, at least from 97-99. For 2000, GM changed a few things up front to match the new 00+ Bonnie, like the engine and trans mounts, moving eh battery back, and, I think, going over to the cast oil-pan.

The interior is, as you probably noticed, bloody cavernous. Even the back seat has a ton of room for a big guy like me(6' even, 290lbs). Take a look at all the nicely positioned features, too...power plug in both rear doors along with ashtrays, usable cup-holders in the rear armrest, a very intelligent climate control system(once you get used to not having a constant stream of air blowing in your face like other cars). The 9-speaker stereo sounds great, too.

One big thing I would have told you would be to check for the F41 Gran Touring Suspension, which, if you have the chrome wheels, you probably don't have. The F41 was packaged with the medallion wheels. The standard Dynaride suspension is floaty and numb, but the F41 makes the car a lot tighter, a lot flatter, and a LOT more fun to drive. I've had mine on an AutoX course a couple times, and while it certainly didn't corner flat(especially after the swaybar end-link snapped...) it did grip well, and managed not to embarrass itself.

Go to 18s if you decide to keep the car, BTW, it will improve handling and road feel by a ton.

Now, negatives...the 98 PAU is a stone bitch to tune because of the torque management, and the exhaust is smaller than on the 00+. The seat bottom has a tendency to smush over the outside of the frame and crack the control bezel off the side of the seat. The trunks do occasionally develop leaks, but not nearly as often as the 00+ Bonnie.
Traction control on the 98 is downright dumb. It will nail the ABS at the slightest sign of tire-slip, and a second or so later, it will yank a HUGE whack of timing out. If you turn the TC off, it won't hit the brakes, but will still yank the timing. I had INTENSE disable the timing yank, and I turn the TC button off to get rid of the ABS hit. Even during the worst snow or ice, the ABS and timing yank are just plain useless to anyone who has any idea of how to actually drive a car.


BTW, if you can't get the tape unstuck, let me know, I have my stock tape/CD laying around somewhere, and I'll give you a very reasonable price. You would have to get the TheftLock code input at the dealer, though...

[BlackHawk99]

Congratz on your purchase! Wish Cody had told me about this thread, I'd have had some input for you...all to the positive. Aside from the leaky strut, everything you've listed is common issues, and for the most part easily fixed. For whatever reason, 97+ PAs have never had the big leak issues that the 00+ Bonnies had, in spite of being based on the same platform. Steering clunk also seems to be much less prevalent, at least from 97-99. For 2000, GM changed a few things up front to match the new 00+ Bonnie, like the engine and trans mounts, moving eh battery back, and, I think, going over to the cast oil-pan.

So far I've only driven it about 55 miles and it seems to do real well. Plenty of power, but I will say that it is a slouch compared to the Regal GS we once owned. I have no comparison to a Bonnie since I've never driven an L67 Bonnie. I noticed no steering clunk, but the mileage may attribute to the fact that it hasn't appeared yet.

The interior is, as you probably noticed, bloody cavernous. Even the back seat has a ton of room for a big guy like me(6' even, 290lbs). Take a look at all the nicely positioned features, too...power plug in both rear doors along with ashtrays, usable cup-holders in the rear armrest, a very intelligent climate control system(once you get used to not having a constant stream of air blowing in your face like other cars). The 9-speaker stereo sounds great, too.

Ditto on everything you said! The interior is nice no doubt about it. I didn't find the driver's seat to be too comfortable, but that's because it's stuck all the way back in the most awkward position imaginable. Fixing the driver's seat is very first on the list. I also noticed that there are no overhead mirrors in the back seat which fold out of the headliner. The 99 I looked at had them. Maybe that was only available 99+. An 02 I looked at had them too. Honestly, I don't like them so it's just as well. The heated seats will be especially nice in the winter.

One big thing I would have told you would be to check for the F41 Gran Touring Suspension, which, if you have the chrome wheels, you probably don't have. The F41 was packaged with the medallion wheels. The standard Dynaride suspension is floaty and numb, but the F41 makes the car a lot tighter, a lot flatter, and a LOT more fun to drive. I've had mine on an AutoX course a couple times, and while it certainly didn't corner flat(especially after the swaybar end-link snapped...) it did grip well, and managed not to embarrass itself.

I'm not sure which suspension I have. If I keep this car (which I'm thinking I will, actually...contrary to what I said before) I will get new struts for the rear before getting new tires. I noticed the compressor runs everytime I start the car. I find it annoying and am not sure it's actually doing anything. What are the side affects of just disconnecting it? 95% of the time I'll never have any passengers in the back seat or anything heavy in the trunk.

Go to 18s if you decide to keep the car, BTW, it will improve handling and road feel by a ton.

I'm actually wanting to get the non-chrome stockers. I don't care for the chrome at all. I posted a pic of what I want in the Wanted section. If you know anyone that has a set of alloys that they wish to straight up trade, let me know.

Now, negatives...the 98 PAU is a stone bitch to tune because of the torque management, and the exhaust is smaller than on the 00+. The seat bottom has a tendency to smush over the outside of the frame and crack the control bezel off the side of the seat. The trunks do occasionally develop leaks, but not nearly as often as the 00+ Bonnie.
Traction control on the 98 is downright dumb. It will nail the ABS at the slightest sign of tire-slip, and a second or so later, it will yank a HUGE whack of timing out. If you turn the TC off, it won't hit the brakes, but will still yank the timing. I had INTENSE disable the timing yank, and I turn the TC button off to get rid of the ABS hit. Even during the worst snow or ice, the ABS and timing yank are just plain useless to anyone who has any idea of how to actually drive a car.

It's funny you mention that about the control bezel. I looked at two PAUs and both of the seat bezels were broken. What you said makes perfect sense. LOL The bezel on mine is just fine, however. Do you have any experience with the driver's seat being stuck in the back-most position? I did some googling and it doesn't seem to be a common problem.

The good thing for me is that I don't plan on ever modding this car or driving it hard. I just want a comfortable highway cruiser that has some nuts when I get into the throttle. I'll save the modding for a 98-99 SSEi that I'll buy...someday!

BTW, if you can't get the tape unstuck, let me know, I have my stock tape/CD laying around somewhere, and I'll give you a very reasonable price. You would have to get the TheftLock code input at the dealer, though...

Thanks for the offer! Andrew has one as well. I'll let each of you know what comes of the tape deck issue. I should be able to give it some attention on Labor Day Monday (going out of town tonight).

[sonoma_zr2]

the elc does kick in on every key on to (re)pressurize the system.

[GonneVille]

If you actually disconnect the ELC or pull the fuse,the rear end will end up dropping a little. The suspension kind of depends on it as the years go on and the springs settle. You get used to the noiseof the pump on startup. However, if the pump keeps running for more than 10-20 seconds, you may have a leak somewhere in on of the lines.

Finally, you can just pop out the spare tire cover and look in hte RPO codes for the F41 code, but you should be able to tell by driving it. If it gives you that really floaty, sitting-on-a-cloud feel, it's Dynaride. If you get a bit of road feel, and the car settles down quickly after hitting a bump, it's probably the F41...
Mine also has a small plaque on the dash behind the multi-switch that says "Gran Touring Suspension".

I can't tell you anything about the seats being stuck all the way back, but if you want to tackle the issue yourself, I can scan off the appropriate pages from my FSM and send them to you.(I'm kind of itching to try out the scanner in my new-to-me yard-sale printer...)

[mntnbkr]

Hey Mark,

I don't know what could be the issue with your seat, but I have a couple of seats that may or may not be suitable donors for parts. I have them listed here in the for sale section and on craigslist, but I haven't had even a low ball offer on them, so they'll probably end up at the curb for the scrappers before too long. If you can't fix your seat, feel free to give me a call and we can see if any of the parts from my seats can help get yours working. Might as well scavenge from them before I get rid of them. The seats that I have are from a '00 Bonnie, that's why I'm not sure if they'll work or not.

Adam

P.S. You drove my Bonnie with the L67.

I have no comparison to a Bonnie since I've never driven an L67 Bonnie.

[BlackHawk99]

LOL...yes, that's true, Adam. Forgot about that!

Thanks for the offer on the seats. However, the PAU seats are a complex beast and nothing like what's in a Bonneville. I tried removing the driver's seat yesterday so that I could manually adjust it and after about an hour I decided efff it. My time is more valuable than that!

Yesterday was spent cleaning the heck out of the PAU. It cleaned up real well and now has a nice glossy shine. All the while I was cleaning it I couldn't help but just really not like the car. I dunno. There's not much that I could do to like the thing. So, I've officially decided that it's going back up for sale. As soon as I get the title back from the DMV with my name on it, it's going for sale. The seat will remain as is. I was able to get the busted tape out of the player. I just need a set of floor mats and two center caps. I'm going to the boneyard after work and should be able to land those couple things.

The car is now registered in my name so I'll drive it for a little while until it sells. If anyone's interested in this low mileage car, PM me. Otherwise, craigslist is goes and my search continues....

[harofreak00]

LOL... oh Mark.

[BlackHawk99]

Checking this out tonight...

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/ctd/1361869750.html

[mntnbkr]

3800 Liters...WOW! That's a big engine...LOL.

edit: If they had the LIM gasket changed it must have been leaking. That would make me wonder how long it was leaking for and if there's any internal damage. I think that's what happened to the original engine in my Bonnie. The guy I bought it from had the LIM changed, but the damage was already done, so the engine only lasted another few thousand miles before it seized.

It looks like a nice car other than that though.

[BlackHawk99]

I looked at it tonight and the car is MINT except for two small issues...cracked driver's side mirror housing and the passenger front door lock doesn't lock with the button. The motor actuates, but there's no movement on the lever. I'm thinking the little connecting rod popped off. It has no rust except for under the rockers where the body panels are seamed together at the factory. Even that is surface rust. You could eat off the motor. Everything did very well on it.

So, we agreed on a price of $4,775. I'm bringing it home tomorrow. The PAU is going up for sale for sure now!

[00Beast]

Very Nice! You're getting to be like Andrew!