PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

Happy Ice Storm 2014....

It's hard to open your doors when your whole car is a 1/2" sheet of ice.

my doors aren't really the issue right now, it's traction. and for some reason Anti-Lock brakes seem useless. they kick in, pull my brake pedal up and essentially make it impossible to stop. not sure how that differs from locked brakes, where you also, are incapable of stopping. remind me what the point of Anti-Lock brakes are again, if they have the same problem--the lack of ability to safely bring a vehicle to a stop?!

ABS lets you retain the ability to steer, while locked wheels turn your car into a sled.

Static friction coefficient is higher than kinetic friction - so a locked tire won't be able to stop the car as fast. If the tire doesn't lock, the stopping power is directly related to the amount of brake torque being generated.

Carl already said the other purpose.

I remember reading somewhere that in deep snow or sand, ABS actually increases stopping distance. That being said, I believe that everyone should learn how the utilize threshold braking.

No ABS here!

I really need to get that fixed one of these days...

No ABS / Traction control here as well. Actually, this winter has improved my driving since I have now had to learn how to slow my car down by pumping the brakes in order to prevent it from turning in to a sled.

Or learn the brake/gas method. I read about it somewhere, don't recall where. But it said if trying to turn (with FWD) and you are sliding straight, obviously you would already be braking but also hit the gas while you're on the brake and it'll steer you around the corner.

I've gotten pretty good at it, it does help going around slippery corners/turns.

This was my drive in to work this morning:



Came home to find the wife's car blocking the drive. So I drove around it. The I got the key for her car and backed up a little and drove it the rest of the way up the drive. That's 8" plus all the ice/snow that I never bothered to shovel from before.


I'm not sure what's so hard about driving in this stuff

I have you no ABS guys beat, drove to work today in 6" of snow with no brakes at all. Well, after a second of having your foot on the brake anyway. But that's getting fixed as we speak.

I have been using the engine braking un place of actual brakes since I've sailed though intersections because of ABS. I am not even stomping on the pedal either. Just lightly tapping and GRRRRRR at 10mph it refuses to let me stop resulting in me throwing the car into a ditch to avoid a rear end collision. It's bloody annoying. Seems if I try stepping down harder it fights back more. I hate it. Because of it I literally have no brakes.

nos4blood70 wrote: I believe that everyone should learn how the utilize threshold braking.

One good thing about learning in an 88 no electronic nonsense to interfere. I actually find it easier to drive with the traction control off on the 2000.

Did you know...

If you lock the ebrake, the system thinks a WSS is gone, kicks the ABS light on and kills ABS, at least until you shut the car off and restart. Just do it in a safe area, and you are fine for the rest of the trip.

Make sure your tires are up to the challenge too. The brakes are only as good as the traction at the tires...

I do admit though, ABS at full low speed intervention is a pretty hopeless feeling... but then again so is dead sliding through the intersection too fully locked up...

Car has brand new tires. I've driven RWD V8 driven old cars before I upgraded to this one. My last two were a Chrysler Fifth Avenue and an AMC Spirit/AMX. NEVER had problems with braking in snow. But ABS almost landed me in accidents so often I feel my safety is at risk. I'd pull the fuse if it were easy to pull the idiot light from the instrument cluster.

Slightly unrelated, but about 2 weeks ago I got to experience my ABS in the fastlane right at the hydroplane threshold. Even though I have good water shedding tires, with heavy rain, and traffic about 60MPH, as I was travelling through a low spot I just touched the brakes, and I was immediately water-skiing. That definitely gets your attention next to the concrete meridian!!

If it makes you feel a bit better, it's now -2 here and falling, no snow yet.

Teens and over two inches of ice here with no relief in sight. Plus an additional two inches of snow forecast on top of all that Friday. My car is undrivable due to the ice amount and because ABS won't let me make a complete stop at all no matter the brake threshold. It also needs LIM gaskets so my boss has been carrying me to and from work

We had ice in Dallas in December, and I had no problems with ABS in my 98. The ABS has since gone out and with the snow yesterday, I kept locking up, once while turning. I had to lock up the back wheels just to regain control and complete the turn. I went through FWD EVOC training back in the mid 90's, as well as an ABS driving class. I can assure you, ABS does not increase your stopping distance, nor are the brakes not working when the pedal kicks back. ABS pumps the brakes faster than you can, and prevents lock up. On snow or ice, when you lock up the front wheels, you actually pack snow or ice under the wheels, giving them more slip. ABS keeps the wheels from locking up, building snow/ice/water under the tire, and offers more control for steering. The misconception comes from the loss of tire screeching. Most of us were conditioned to believe noise equals results. However, much like tire spin on launch, when the tires are making noise, they have lost grip or traction. With the ABS on our cars, we really do not gain nor lose stopping distance in any condition.

RJolly87 wrote:Did you know...

If you lock the ebrake, the system thinks a WSS is gone, kicks the ABS light on and kills ABS, at least until you shut the car off and restart. Just do it in a safe area, and you are fine for the rest of the trip.

Make sure your tires are up to the challenge too. The brakes are only as good as the traction at the tires...

I do admit though, ABS at full low speed intervention is a pretty hopeless feeling... but then again so is dead sliding through the intersection too fully locked up...

Ahh good to know, happened to me while I was at the track haha Personally I love ABS and Traction Control. As long as I have the ability to turn it off, well the TC anyhow.

i'll have to try that trick. i think the ABS in my car is early generation. not sure if they had improved things in 98 or up. i suppose like airbags they have become better about working properly or have thresholds mine don't. i sure wouldn't want to be hit in the face with whatever stone-age airbag they used in 1992....

I've thought of putting an on/off switch so i can disable them when i think the conditions make them more problems than they're worth, then keep them on in other situations like slush, rain where they work better. i am tired of skidding through intersections or not being able to stop and having to throw my car into a ditch or median to avoid running into someone. as i see it, they are no different than locking the brakes either way. and i am sure that they kick in when i would often be able to stop with pumping the brakes normally. they seem worse at around 15MPH. it's fine if i don't try to stop. slowing down they work great. stopping, no.

Whatever stone-age system for ABS was used in '92, it's like having no brakes at all. take last time for example. i was going to a small fast food place, and they had snow still in their parking lot. i was barely on the brakes, and exactly 18MPH they kicked in. pedal goes ALL the way up, makes that inane pulsing, and no matter how hard i tried to 'fight it' by putting both feet on the pedal and throwing the car into neutral, it got worse. i essentially coasted along at 12MPH, out of their parking lot, over a curb, into the bar next door's parking lot, and it did not stop completely until i hit the grass ditch. the entire duration of the pulsing i had NO brakes. they're super sensitive too. sometimes they kick in when i'm sure there is no chance of lockup. in my '84 Fifth Avenue, i could lightly tap and pump and i could have stopped without going two parking lots over into a ditch.