PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

Hello, I've had my 2001 Pontiac Bonneville SSEI for several months now. I love the car, and almost everything about it, other than the fact that I KNOW it can run better, and there must be something I can do to make it feel like new and get the power and MPG back that this beautiful piece of engineering was made to provide.

As the weather has gotten colder I've gone from about 18.5 MPG to 15.9 MPG over the course of three months, is this normal?

I would just like to know of some simple, low-cost things that I can do to restore my engine's effectiveness and fuel economy.

Some information about the car:
- I've got about 125,000 miles on the car, about 3,500 from me so far. The rest was from the previous owner.
I'm not exactly sure how well the previous owner maintained the car, but I do know that most of the work to "fix up" the car was done 3-4 years ago, spark plugs, tires, belts, etc. and wasn't used much after that.
- I recently got my oil changed at a Valvoline because it was cheap and quick, never will I do this again. Not only do they do a crappy job at making my oil any better than it was before, they ended up putting the filter on wrong and I was leaking tons of oil, I had to take it back and wait 1 hour while they "fixed" it. For now on I' going to do these oil changes myself.

This is my first car, and I plan on babying it for (hopefully) another 60,000 miles or more without any major thousand-dollar repairs.
So far I plan on doing a 2-can seafoam treatment tomorrow. (1 can in the tank, 1/2 in the vacuum hose, half in the oil)

- I also noticed that 1 year ago a mechanic determined the front two rotors were warped and all 4 pads were used to hell, so I bought 4 new rotors and 4 new sets of pads and plan on putting these on soon.

I'm sure this community is very helpful, I'm willing to spend what it takes and do the monthly maintenance but am very new at automotive repair and maintenance, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Welcome to the forum!

Here are quite a few things that can help you get your car back to where it's supposed to be. Also, depending on where you live, your MPG will fluctuate in the winter compared to the warmer months, as with driving habits and such. How are you calculating mpg, with the DIC or manually every fill up?

00Beast wrote:

• 1987-2005 Bonneville / Buick 3800 Maintenance List
  
  Grease: Ball Joints, Tie Rods Every 8-10k ( Green Grease or Amsoil Grease recommended)
  Air Filter Every 15k (Amsoil EaA, Purolator PureONE)
  PCV Valve Every 30k
  MAF Sensor Element Cleaning/TB Cleaning Every 50k viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1661
  Fuel Filter Every 15-25k (Purolator, AC Delco, WIX) http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... 45&t=23215
  Spark Plugs Every 30-50k (NGK TR55, AC Delco 41-101 or Autolite 605) (Never Bosch)
  Ignition Wires Every 30-50k (Napa Belden, AC Delco, Autolite Pro, NGK) (Never Taylor or Bosch)
  Oil & Filter Every 5-6k or Every 6 months (Valvoline SYNPower, Pennzoil Platinum, or Amsoil )(Mobil1, Purolator PureONE, Amsoil EaO, K&N or WIX) (Never Fram) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=214
  *Conventional Oil Every 3k/3 months(API SM/SN rating) (WIX (Napa), Delco or Purolator filter)
  Tires: Check Inflation Pressure & Visually Inspect Monthly Rotate Every 6-8,000 Miles
  Transmission Flush or Pan Drop Every 15-20k (Always make sure filter is changed when flushed) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=10193
  Cooling System Flush Every 25-50k or 3-5 Years (Peak or Prestone Mixes-With-Any Coolant Only) (Never Dexcool)
  Oxygen Sensor Every 80-100k (30k for non-heated) (AC Delco or Denso) (Absolutely never Bosch) viewtopic.php?f=48&t=794
  Accessory Belt Inspect every 15k, replace every 100k, or as needed
  Cabin Air Filter Inspect and Replace every 15k, or as needed in dusty conditions. (Note: 00+ Only) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=13626
  Evap Core Cleaning Whenever Needed (Note: 99 and older only) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2432
  Brake Fluid Flush 3yr/50k
  Power Steering Fluid Replacement/Flush Every 100k or 5 years
  
  *Special Considerations*
  All Series II/III 3800's RPO's: L36, L26, L67 & L32, especially important on vehicles factory installed with orange Havoline Dexcool Antifreeze/Coolant: http://www.dex-cool.net/
  Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Replacement, every 80-100k (ignorance of this can allow coolant to enter your engine oil, this happening can cause irreversible lower engine damage, requiring replacement of subject engine)
  
  Series II, Naturally Aspirated, RPO:L36:
  Upper Intake Manifold Plenum Replacement, Every 80-100k (ignorance of this can allow coolant to enter your intake manifold, possible damage to occur can be hydrolock, irreversible damage to emissions devices, misfires, etc. Most times, engine replacement is required if ignored long enough.) viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1061
  
  Series I, II, III RPO Code L67 & L32:
  Change Supercharger Oil; Every 30-50k. (Intense Racing or GM Dealer) viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1690
  Supercharger Belt; Inspect Every 15k, Replace Every 100k or as needed.

12/26/2012 by 00Beast

Some things to look for....

1) If not already done, change the lower intake manifold gaskets. There is an aluminum framed version that supercedes the plastic gaskets, and you'll never have to change them again.

2) While the LIM is off of the car, change the coupler in the supercharger nosedrive and put fresh supercharger oil in it, and new grease in the rotor bearings.

3) A shift improver kit will do wonders with your transmission, along with Dex6 fluid. If at all possible, install a trans cooler. Our transmissions run VERY hot.

4) If your front transmission mount isn't toast yet, it will be. Believe it or not, hockey pucks are the ticket to replacing that crappy mount with something more solid. I'm actually looking into Volvo engine mounts as another alternative.

5) Intermediate steering shaft will need to be replaced or greased really good if you feel a clunking in the steering column that you can't quite pin down.

The only thing Im going to disagree with is the trans cooler. Nobody Ive ever talked to has ever heard of a 4t65hd being killed by heat and the risk of leaks and contamination outweigh the cooling unless you drive in mountains all day or tow heavy loads with it.

Other than the mileage, it doesnt sound like you have much to go off of to think your car isnt running as it should. Do you have any other symptoms? Despite having a bit of a reputation in their day, these arent particularly fast cars. Perhaps you have higher expectations? Nothing wrong with that, theres always more power to be had.

This should get moved to regular 00+ forum, ya mods?

Thanks all for the suggestions, I'm going to do some basic things like flushing fluids and replacing them, the only thing I may need help with there are the brakes.

I'm planning on replacing the rotors and pads on all 4 wheels, but I can't get a single of these caliper bolts off. They are simply rusted and "frozen" on. I've used penetrating oil and a impact wrench with no avail, does anybody have suggestions? I paid about $200 for the pads and rotors and don't want them to go to waste simply because I can't get the caliper bolts off. Also, what's the best route to go about for bleeding the brakes while changing them, new fluid or re-use the fluid I have in there now?

The seafoam worked wonders. Although I was scared while putting it in the brake booster, it shook like crazy and it wouldn't stall after sucking up the remaining seafoam in the can, so I quickly turned the engine off and let it sit for 30 minutes. Put 1/2 a can in the oil and a full can into my fuel. Believe me when I say there was a LOT of Carbon buildup for 123,000 miles. Such a smoke show, drove it around a little and the idle is SO much better, went from about 900 RPM at Idle to 600 RPM, and it makes slightly less noise.

As for your great suggestions:
- Where is the intake manifold gasket and any suggestions on where to buy from?
- I think I can do the supercharger oil change, seems fairly easy and cheap, i'm sure it needs to be done at my car's mileage.
- The transmission things I've looked at seem to be quite expensive, I think i'll stick with just using the Dex6 fluid.
- Steering feels great, but I will certainly investigate further, but I am only 17 and this is my first car, planning on becoming an Automotive Engineer, so I'm starting to get a grasp on all of this, but what should I look for in relation to the steering system?

To answer what I expected out of the car, I knew that it wouldn't be much, being a first car and bought for $4,000 with the mileage it has, but based on what others are getting mileage wise with this same model I know that my maintenance needs to be improved, I plan on doing some basic mods after I get a decent amount of money saved for college, becoming an automotive engineer won't be cheap

Thanks again for all of the input so far, this is a great community, for great cars

The lower intake gaskets seal the lower intake to the heads. The originals and for the longest time aftermarket gaskets are plastic that, if Dexcool coolant is used, WILL break down and cause mysterious loss of coolant, eventually leading up to hydrolock. There's plenty of pics floating around that show the breakdown.

Changing out the coupler for the supercharger is cake. But be warned...old supercharger oil is RANK. I mean in the worst imaginable way possible.

And on the trans cooler...my (now my stepdaughters) '06 Grand Prix trans regularly saw temps over 215* during the summers here...and that was at cruise. Around the town it spiked up to 230*. For that reason alone I put a cooler on both my '97 SSE project (which got a 4t65e transplant) and my '01 SSEi. While I have no numbers on the '01 yet, the '97 never went above 140* during the summer. Trust me, it's much needed insurance.

Trans fluid life decreases dramatically (well, kinda) with increases in operating temp. Most people don't consider degraded fluid as a sign of heat failure though, and the fluid doesn't turn brown unless clutches start slipping (it will still smell though). For a stock daily driver, you don't have problems because the stock cooling system for the trans is usually sufficient (we all know how that works, you can't design a single part for every possible operating environment). But the more torque you shove down the input shaft the hotter those *durn* clutch packs get - Something very important to consider and monitor when you start making more power and see time at the track, showing off, WOT everytime, driving in stop and go traffic, in the city, etc...

Keeping the fluid cool isn't just insurance, it's a requirement to maintain the seals and keep the valve body from wearing out prematurely. These are constant operating temps, a transmission would never see this normally: At 150* fluid lasts for about 150k. At 190* is down to about 90K (IIRC, the factory intent operating temp is 180-190*). At 210*, the pressure starts dropping, down to 50k miles. At 230*, valves start to stick, down to 20k miles. At 250*, you get varnish, 10k miles. And at 270 slipping.

Every car will be different. I recommend getting a temp gauge for the trans fluid so you don't have to guess if you need an auxilary cooler, any regular 100-280 coolant temp gauge will work. If you start seeing temps sitting higher than 190 or get spikes past 200, then it's time to add a cooler.


As far as the steering goes, well my fingers need a rest It seems that the '00+ suspension geometry is more sensitive to parts wearing out, causing shakes, but I've never had the joy of dealing with one to expand on that thought.

sandrock wrote:Changing out the coupler for the supercharger is cake. But be warned...old supercharger oil is RANK. I mean in the worst imaginable way possible.

There are no words in the human language to accurately describe that smell.

I had my coupler changed while I was at INTENSE last Spring, and some of that oil got on the supercharger nose and other parts of the engine bay. All I can say is that for the next few days I had trouble driving the car because the smell was always there - outside and inside.

At my old home in Florida, I dug a hole in my backyard just so I could bury that oil. My wife caught a whiff of it and said...

"Hmm. So that's what your exwife smells like. No wonder you didn't venture south".

My dog got into a bottle of S/C oil all over our driveway. Thank god it snowed and was super cold, that killed the smell quick....

I still say the best mod I ever bought for my 03 was the Aeroforce Interceptor scan-gauge. Looks great, works great, and has saved a lot of parts and diagnostic time. Intense-Racing sells them as does Aeroforce on their site, otherwise you can often find them used.

Thanks for all of the suggestions and warnings about supercharger oil smell guys, I'm going to take them all into consideration especially the transmission fixes, hopefully I can do them on my own or get my mechanic neighbor to help me. But thanks for the guidance thus far, you guys are great and very responsive

I do have just one other issue, my Brake Caliper bolts are completely rusted on, I don't know how long it's been since they were removed but if I were to guess it would be 5-6 years at LEAST, and they are stuck on pretty *dang* well. We've tried letting penetrating oil sit on it for about 12 hours and trying an impact wrench, still nothing. Is the only solution to this going to be finding someone with a power tool and using that to remove these rusty "frozen" bolts, all 8 bolts are like this btw.

Also, before buying a transmission cooler I would like to see if it's necessary, I have a OBD II bluetooth diagnostics tool, would an app like torque or dashcommand be able to tell me the transmission temperature? I can't seem to get things like oil pressure and temperature to show up, but I don't expect anyone to be an expert on the app, so ignore this if you know nothing about it.

On the trans temps.... Take the car on a trip, climb hills and watch the engine and trans get very very warm...

sandrock let me borrow his Scan Gauge II for one of my trips, it showed 230F Trans temps running through VA and WV on I-77... I was not happy with those numbers... After that trip I changed to Dex 6, have run it ever since.. Doesn't seem to be as bad, but here it is 5 months later and the fluid is taking a beating... I will install a cooler before the hot months come along here in FL...

On my 95 with the 4T60E, The last time I changed the fluid was at Sandrocks House in 2007 before my trip to CT for NEBF.. I have never dropped the pan since.. 197,600 miles( miles on the original trans ) and the fluid is still cherry red( Coastal Dex 3 )... Normally saw it get to 160F on a 96F day... I still feel heat is a large enemy of any transmission, and on the 00+ Bonneville the Radiator is no help as it is dinky, very dinky.... When I replace the Radiator on my 03 it will most likely get a Lucerne HD Radiator...

Just my opinion...lol

Is it possible for me to use Fully Synthetic 5W-30 Mobile 1 oil for the supercharger, I can't find a store that sells the supercharger oil, unless i'm looking for the wrong thing.

Hint's on caliper bolts, get all the bolts you need to replace them all the way around. Good to have on hand in case you need them or decide to replace them from the go...if you don't need or use them you can return them.
Not a bad idea to have a few extra lug bolts and twice as many lug nuts, if you have to replace any plan on destroying 1 nut to get get new lug stud in...
As for loosing up on the caliper blots, a large handled rachet with a nice size metal pipe or something to stick on the handle of the rachet and give you more leverage. (it took 3 people on a 4 foot water pipe to remove a couple of mine)

Got any pics of your car yet?

-Running Wolf

SSEI173 wrote:Is it possible for me to use Fully Synthetic 5W-30 Mobile 1 oil for the supercharger, I can't find a store that sells the supercharger oil, unless i'm looking for the wrong thing.

You have to get it from a dealer or an online store. Motor oil cannot handle the supercharger AT ALL.