PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

ok. my bonneville is stuck at a giant super market parking lot a few miles from my house.. i have aaa but dont like calling them unless i have to.

the car is giving me the same problem it did about 2 weeks ago.. i drove it to a store. it was fine all day. then all of a sudden i come out of store and car would not start. battery is good, contacts are clean n wires are new. plenty of gas pressure in fuel rail, and starter is good.

it will crank and crank and crank but not start. last time it happened i left car alone for 2 hours. then all of a sudden it started back up..

today my wife drove all over fine then came out of giant and car would not start. even went and tried my key incase her chipped key was dirty and it still wont start. battery is at 13 volts. fuel pressure is great at the rail. but i could not check for spark ( no socket ).


so i had to leave car at giant and take my wife with me to go pick up my kids from school. in about 30 mins ill be heading back to giant to see if the car will start again after sitting a while like last time.


this is the 3rd time in a month this does this same issue, and i also noticed it raining today and was rainging both the other times..

( also the check engine light randomly comes on for a few seconds here and there for the last month or so but i been to 2 places and they get a error code on their snap on scanners trying to scan my obd1.5 on my 95 bonneville so i havent been able to find out why.. i think its a bad o2 sensor but not 100%

not sure if its the coil packs or ecm or vats system.. but it will crank and crank and crank.

what could it be ? any ideas, help ?

and also what does the vats system stop from engaugeing when its activated or not letting car start ? and how would i check it ?

I would suspect the crank position sensor from your description. It should start and run fine till you get it home but it's only going to get worse. Once they cool down they work as they should.

pbrktrt wrote:I would suspect the crank position sensor from your description. It should start and run fine till you get it home but it's only going to get worse. Once they cool down they work as they should.

thanks. i also noticed that it is indeed not getting any fuel now.. i have no fuel pressue at the rail at all..

and to change the crank sensor the harmonic balancer has to be removed with a puller correct ?

Since you have no fuel pressure its most likely not the crank sensor. You'll get fuel pressure simply by turning the switch to the run position.

No fuel pressure:

1) Got gas? Never hurts to add a couple gallons.

2) No electrical power to the pump. Check the fuse. If you have a meter you can check for 12 volts at the fuse. You'll only have 12 volts for 2 seconds while the key is in the run position. Constant 12 volts while cranking.

3) Bad ground - check the driver's side ground bus.

4) Bad fuel pump.

5) Clogged fuel filter but I'd expect you to have had problems with accelerating way before you'd have starting problems.

Mechanical Mike wrote:Since you have no fuel pressure its most likely not the crank sensor. You'll get fuel pressure simply by turning the switch to the run position.

No fuel pressure:

1) Got gas? Never hurts to add a couple gallons.

2) No electrical power to the pump. Check the fuse. If you have a meter you can check for 12 volts at the fuse. You'll only have 12 volts for 2 seconds while the key is in the run position. Constant 12 volts while cranking.

3) Bad ground - check the driver's side ground bus.

4) Bad fuel pump.

5) Clogged fuel filter but I'd expect you to have had problems with accelerating way before you'd have starting problems.

got almost a full tank of gas. even added 3 more gallons..

fuse for pump and the relay for pump both checked good...

did not check drivers side ground bus yet---------

hope its not a bad fuel pump

and i just changed the filter yesterday to see if it made a difference..


here is a lil update of what i posted on bonnevillepro.com.



yes the light did blink as i cranked it.. but here is an update.

i went and picked up a $3 fuel filter, then i jacked up rear passanger side, changed fuel filter ( brown colored gas came out old filter ) and clear gas came out the line coming from the tank.

i put on the new filter, while i was under the car already i took it upon my self to bang on the tank a dozen times with my fist, charged battery for 20 mins as it was low from all the exessive cranking and no starting,

after battery charged i went to try to start the car, it cranked for about 15-20 seconds then started up and stayed running for 30 mins straight. i then shut it off and started it back up atleast a dozen or more times even waiting a few mins inbetween starts and it started every time with no issues.. it even seems to run a lil smoother then it did before.


so now im not sure if its from changing the fuel filter or from banging on the tank like a mad man that got the car to run again..


i dont no what to do now. should i let my wife use it again every day for work as she is a case worker and travels to all her differnt clients houeses every day, and chance her getting stuck again if it was the fuel pump failing..

or what ? thanks.

(((((((so yesterday the car was running after i messed with it. )))))))))




and my last post that i just updated this morning about 20 mins ago.



ok so this morning i just went out to start the car and see if it would run. when i started it, it instantly started right up with no hesitation or problems.

i let it run for about 10 mins, then the check engine light came on. car was still running and sounded fine,

so i decided to shut it off to see if it would start back up and after shutting it off, i counted to 15, then cranked it and it started right back up. so i turned it off and tried to start it a second time, and nothing.. it just cranked and would not start at all.

so i popped the hood and checked the fuel rail and not even a drip came out the fuel rail when i checked for pressure but the inside of the car wreaks of gas strong..


HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

When it won't start can you hear the fuel pump? Was the old fuel filter plugged? If it was, or was almost plugged then you probably burnt out a spot in you fuel pump. That would explain why you pound on the tank and cam get it to run.

I would definitely suspect the fuel pump. Banging on the tank jarred the pump from a bad spot on the electric motor. I may be wrong, but I have "fixed" several no-fuel issues by banging the tank, only to have the problem re-appear when the fuel pump's motor stopped on the bad spot again.

How old is your fuel pump, anyway?

ok so i put a new fuel pump, filter and fuel pressure regulator. ran some gumout fuel system cleaner, put it all back togther and then tried to start it.

it started after about 10 seconds of cranking and then it stumbled and died, started it again. gave it gas.. it bogged up and down and made a popping sound coming out of the throttle body, but stood running as long as i held the rpms up to 2000.

i let the gas pedal go and it idled fine.. i let it idle for 15 mins, then went to take it for a test drive and it seems to be very hesitant on the take off.. even if i mash the gas pedal.. it takes about 30 seconds to get to 15-20mph but once it does it takes off kinda fast and feels o.k

i only drove it about 10 block and came back home. its so heistant on a take off from a dead stop i am scared to enter into certain streets of traffic with it let alone the highway,

i brought it back home and when and bought a fuel pressure gauge. connected the gauge to the valve port under the fuel regulator on the rail. it immediatly jumped to 35psi. i turned the car on and let it idle and the gaughe only went upto 37-38psi, i tried reving the rpms upto 2000rpms but the gauge stood at 37-38psi.

that was at 11am this morning..

i went back outside at 4pm and when i starte the car. it was bogging up and down and instantly died, but once i starte it back up and help the gas pedal it did the thing with staying running but bogging up and down and not revving high at all and popping sometimes out of the throttle body/ air intake but once i let off the gas it would catch its idle and be fine i guess once it warmed up..

once warmed i can rev the engine and it will rev fine but wheni drive it, it still is very very poor and slow on the take off untill 15-20mph is reached then it picks up some power and starts moving.

so now my check engine light is permantly on. and im not sure what it could be.

also plugs and wires were done about 2000 miles ago with last oil change.

Quick check, disconnect the battery to clear the pcm, then disconnect the mass airflow sensor, and see how it runs? It may have gotten dirty during the backfire.

After some research, If your car has this pin layout on the obd-2 connector, you may be able to read codes by shorting pin 5 to pin 6 (some of the early obd 1.5 had these connectors, IDK if that includes the Bonneville): It's a long shot, I think these were only used on cars in australia.

Alternatively, I know that EFILive v4 supports the '94, if you make an adapter (mine cost $30 to make) link. EFI Live isn't cheap though. Maybe somebody local has the snap-on scanner or can help?

If I was closer I'd drive out there.

Hey guys, just a thought, any chance it might be the ICM? His is acting very similar to the way mine did when the ICM went out. - BC

1oldman wrote:Hey guys, just a thought, any chance it might be the ICM? His is acting very similar to the way mine did when the ICM went out. - BC

good thought, but my car did run 100% fine even uptill 2 weeks ago when the fuel pump decided to quit..

it sucks becuase i have a actron scanner with 2 slug made cables that i have never gotten to work on my car with any of the 5 pcms i had switched out threw the years i had it..

What model scanner?

The data wire on the obd 1.5 is different than the obd 2, if it's the right model scanner it may work with a simple adapter.

what about the sensor on the intake manifold i cant remember its name now but check that my car acted exscatly like that when mine get accedently discconected mine would even die when i let off the gas going down the road i noticed no one has mentioned that its nothing near the fuel system but just an idea!

samples08 wrote:what about the sensor on the intake manifold i cant remember its name now but check that my car acted exscatly like that when mine get accedently discconected mine would even die when i let off the gas going down the road i noticed no one has mentioned that its nothing near the fuel system but just an idea!

MAP sensor? - BC

1oldman wrote:

samples08 wrote:what about the sensor on the intake manifold i cant remember its name now but check that my car acted exscatly like that when mine get accedently discconected mine would even die when i let off the gas going down the road i noticed no one has mentioned that its nothing near the fuel system but just an idea!

MAP sensor? - BC

are you talking about the cooling temp sensor next to radiator hose on the intake manifold ?

no the map sensor!

IIRC we went over this in the past, his car doesn't have a MAP Sensor.

it does have a mass airflow sensor...

I edited it!