Serious Help please!! Gearheads...

[Raviaan]

I can't seem to track down my problem.

I had a loud ticking noise, was OBVIOUSLY a lifter that went bad. The dish in the top of the lifter cocked sideways. I replaced the lifter, the LIM gaskets, and supercharger gaskets. I reused the rocker bolts (maybe part of the problem?) Changed the oil.

The LIM gaskets were not too bad, there was no coolant loss, nothing in the oil before the lifter change. The engine started and sounded great on first crank. Couple days later I start noticing a noise. The only way to describe it, it amost like a lifter. Fast and steady. Like a tapping noise, or rattling. It is definately RPM related. It is mostly noticeable under a load, and usually only about 1500RPM and higher. It sounds like it is coming from the belt drive side of the engine...(can be heard best through the passenger wheel well.) The oil pressure has also been acting funny. I am running about 55PSI when on the gas, and about 40 while sitting idle... sometime a LIL lower. The pressure fluctuated a line or two when sitting idle. This isn't normal for me.

I don't know if it is possible for the oil drive on these to make noise when they are going bad, since it is the kind that goes around the crankshaft in the timing cover, but that is approximately where I think the noise is coming from, and with the oil fluctuations... I am not sure what to think here, but I am hoping I don't need an engine. I have 100k on here, and for the last 30k miles since I have had her, she has been getting the oil changed every 2500 miles. When I did the LIM I really cleaned a lot of build up off the valley walls, and some may have made its way down into the block... The noise is steady upon acceleration... I think it is subsiding once I let off the gas a lil... I can only mainly hear it when things are around me to hear it bouncing off of... or when revving a lil.

The other thing is, since the noise started, I have still driven the car... 60+ miles about 3 times, and to work and back. The noise has gotten no worse. Pressure has gotton no worse.

I just don't know what to think here, any help would be great!

ray

[Pontiacdad]

The original rocker arm bolts are torque to yield and cannot be reused.

The sound you hear now might be the water pump (just in front of the timing cover so its in the right location).
To eliminate the pump and any other parts that may be causing the noise, just remove the accessory belt for a few seconds and start up the car. Is the noise still there? If so its an internal problem.

[Raviaan]

Ok, I will remove the belts tomorrow to try. Another question, can the oil pump make noise when it is going bad? It is driven off the crank, so the noise could still be present...

I am going to buy some reusable rocker bolts tomorrow, retorque, and remove belts.

Any other advice, just in case?

ray

[agrazela]

Make sure when you install rocker bolts, that you clean out the blind threaded rocker bolt holes with a q-tip to get all oil out of them. Otherwise you can "hydrolock" the bolt and not install it all the way, regardless of what the torque wrench says. Your rocker arm would then be loose, your pushrod would be flailing around, the lifter would not pump correctly, and this could lead to all kinds of noise issues.

If you didn't clean out the holes when you did your recent work, check to be sure you did not bend or damage a pushrod or lifter.

The oil pumps on 3800's are fairly bulletproof, as I understand it.

[Pontiacdad]

The oil pump can make noise when failing.....but there have been no failures reported yet, these oil pumps tend to last forever.

You can better isolate the sound with a stethoscope or a long handled screw driver held to your ear while you probe around listening for the noise.

[clm2112]

While you are checking the rocker bolt, pull the pushrod out and roll it on a piece of glass to see if it is bent.

What you described as being wrong with the lifter is a little crazy. Like it lost the retaining clip that holds the lifter together somewhere down the line. (Did you find the wire clip in the intake valley? )

With the valve covers off, find TDC #1, then turn the motor over by hand and check all the valves for proper clearance and coil bind. Look for any broken coils, missing retainers. You have a rattle that follows the engine rpm and load, along with a goofy oil pressure. My guess is you have something else wrong in the valve train or rotating assembly of the motor.

[Raviaan]

I removed the valvecovers today, and ran the car, w/ no belts. My boss is swearing it is a lifter / valve train noise... (I am just a general service tech in a shop)... The noise just dosn't make your usaual loud tick that a lifter would, but I guess it could cause other noises... We don't usually get this in depth with engine internals (just like some intakes and such)... but while it was running, I barely had any oil shooting out of the tops. Drizzling, maybe a lil tiny squirt when blipping the throttle a lil. My boss is telling me it should be almost shooting out, at least a couple inches...

Tore the top of the engine apart again. The first time I only replaced the one bad lifter. This time I tore everything apart in the upper end. Of all the lifters I pulled out, only 3 seemed to have held pressure, the rest were loose and rattling, and the dish at the top was sunken below the retainer. The pushrods, at the rocker end... look scored.... almost like someone took some steel wool to that end, and while looking at them, they appear to be worn a bit, enough to maybe create some excessive clearence. Is this normal on our engines....?

There is no noise at start up, when the oil pressure is like 60psi or at an idle after warmed up...... SHould I get the pressure upgrade?! Any advice moving forward with this, cause next I pull the engine and start tearing down the bottom half if new lifters/pushrods don't help. Someone said to pack the pushrods with lucas, and assemble the whole upper end w/ lucas? Is this a good idea?