PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

WEll in my ongoing hunt to try to find my KR issue, Im gonna try some 110 leaded race fuel.. We have 2 local places that have it, and is used quite frequently in the muscle/show cars around here, and also snowmobiles //

Is there anything wrong with doing this? other than paying $7/gallon

and also, can we use e85? since the tests show it to be a true 94-96 octane rating

I know leaded fuel will destroy O2 sensors & converters... it may even hurt injectors.

And no E85, the fuel system is not designed to use it.

Do NOT run either. Fixing KR with octane is no fix. You need to fix the CAR, not what's in the tank.

Lead-based fuel will end up costing your wallet more than the fuel itself in destroyed components, and E85 won't even run in your car correctly. Besides, E85 isn't higher octane. Alcohol itself is a higher octane, but it's blended back down before it's put in the tank at the station.

The first thing you need to rule out is whether it's false knock or not. If it isn't, you need to determine if it's tuning or mechanically caused. Then fix it.
You're discussing your KR issues in 4 different topics now. Please pick one, and stick to it. If you spread your information across multiple topics, we don't see all the details in one place.

If you wanted to swap E85 you'd have to put in a bigger fuel pump, 60# injectors, an alcohol safe fuel filter and replace any rubber parts in the fuel system with alcohol safe. E85 does have a higher octane than 92, but using it just to combat KR is not a good idea. Fix your KR with the proper mechanical fixes (headers, a proper tune, etc) and then think about going E85 for more power, not no KR.

willwren wrote:Do NOT run either. Fixing KR with octane is no fix. You need to fix the CAR, not what's in the tank.

Lead-based fuel will end up costing your wallet more than the fuel itself in destroyed components, and E85 won't even run in your car correctly. Besides, E85 isn't higher octane. Alcohol itself is a higher octane, but it's blended back down before it's put in the tank at the station.

The first thing you need to rule out is whether it's false knock or not. If it isn't, you need to determine if it's tuning or mechanically caused. Then fix it.
You're discussing your KR issues in 4 different topics now. Please pick one, and stick to it. If you spread your information across multiple topics, we don't see all the details in one place.

All I was trying to get at is figuring out if 5 gallons of 110 took care of some of the issue or at least seeing if the fuel is part of the issue. I didn't mean running it 100% of the time.

And sorry about the multiple kr threads. It just seems to come up nomatter what I'm talking about. :/

00Beast wrote:If you wanted to swap E85 you'd have to put in a bigger fuel pump, 60# injectors, an alcohol safe fuel filter and replace any rubber parts in the fuel system with alcohol safe. E85 does have a higher octane than 92, but using it just to combat KR is not a good idea. Fix your KR with the proper mechanical fixes (headers, a proper tune, etc) and then think about going E85 for more power, not no KR.

Yea I found the e85 thread last night before I went to bed. Really doesn't seem worth it for the cost-hp difference.

As for the kr and 110 , like I said above. I just thought running some of it through the tank would be a way to see if it takes it away at all.

I've heard about the cat and o2 damage but not the injectors. But I only considered that to damage possibly if used daily 100% of the time.

I actually thought race fuel was actually good for the internals of the motor..??

If you want to run a diluted mix to see what KR does, find UNLEADED race fuel. We have some locally for $6 a gallon that we use at WCBF every year. Rockett Blue 100.http://rockettbrand.com/productspecs/specs.html

(I just realized you're talking about your KR in 5 topics, not 4, so please take the time to thoroughly and completely describe your symptoms and troubleshooting to date in THIS topic).

Remember, too high of an octane is bad as well. I never run straight 100. I always mix it down to 96 octane max, but my octane needs far exceed yours. 93 or 94 should be enough to see a difference if you are getting 'true' KR.

Most octane booster additives that claim a 'full point' of octane increase are actually 0.1 octane, not 1 octane higher.

Leaded gas isn't good for anything on a car that is designed for unleaded, other than plugging a cat and killing an O2 sensor.

willwren wrote:If you want to run a diluted mix to see what KR does, find UNLEADED race fuel. We have some locally for $6 a gallon that we use at WCBF every year. Rockett Blue 100.http://rockettbrand.com/productspecs/specs.html

(I just realized you're talking about your KR in 5 topics, not 4, so please take the time to thoroughly and completely describe your symptoms and troubleshooting to date in THIS topic).

Remember, too high of an octane is bad as well. I never run straight 100. I always mix it down to 96 octane max, but my octane needs far exceed yours. 93 or 94 should be enough to see a difference if you are getting 'true' KR.

Most octane booster additives that claim a 'full point' of octane increase are actually 0.1 octane, not 1 octane higher.

As far as true kr. I don't know. All I know is my gauge is all over the place at different rpm, speed , shift points etc and thought it might be due to bad gas.

I was wrong tho. The race fuel we have here is 114 not 110. And what I wNted to do was mix it 1/2 n 1/2 with the 93 I usually use. But yes it is leaded but the reason I'm asking is in searching through multiple 3800 forums I' haven't seen it said that it will actually hurt the car. The injectors,o2, and cat under prolonged use, yes. But not 5 gallons worth.

Problem is we only have 1 station with 93. So I have no other means of comparison to see if it is the gas or if it's something else

My local NAPA had Rockett Brand metal cans of gas. Talk to your local parts stores/performance shops.

As far as other 3800 forums, Id stick with this one. Too many ding bats that dont know anything or are misinformed. And dont get me started on the couple of FBody forums I have found

Peope don't know what e85 is. It can be run in our cars with no issues. It's 2 dollar 104. !ust have 60 lbs injectors and tune off wideband.

Larz01 wrote:Peope don't know what e85 is. It can be run in our cars with no issues. It's 2 dollar 104. !ust have 60 lbs injectors and tune off wideband.

Actually it can't. It might work for a while, but over time, it's going to severely damage your fuel system components.

E85 cars have corrosion-resistant fuel systems with upgraded plastic and rubber parts and a fuel sensor that can determine the proportion of ethanol to gasoline. The fuel injection computer, different from the one non-FFVs use--can then inject the correct amount of fuel. This is necessary because it takes a larger volume of ethanol than straight gasoline to run your engine.

You have to have a tuner w/ a wideband to run E85. That's what he said, but it's not for the average bonneville owner.

Bonneville92V688 wrote:

Larz01 wrote:Peope don't know what e85 is. It can be run in our cars with no issues. It's 2 dollar 104. !ust have 60 lbs injectors and tune off wideband.

Actually it can't. It might work for a while, but over time, it's going to severely damage your fuel system components.

E85 cars have corrosion-resistant fuel systems with upgraded plastic and rubber parts and a fuel sensor that can determine the proportion of ethanol to gasoline. The fuel injection computer, different from the one non-FFVs use--can then inject the correct amount of fuel. This is necessary because it takes a larger volume of ethanol than straight gasoline to run your engine.

Actually it can. Been filling up since March. Look at my ETs and trap in sig and tell me it's crap. There is nothing in my fuel system that is going to be effected.

Well I put 11 gallons of 93 in , and topped it off with 110. Im running some miles on it to get the fuel system cleaner out, I put about 30 miles on and took 4 vids of the runs. Kind of interesting results as I was runnin 11psi with zero kr until the 2-3 redline/shift. I am also getting heavily reduced kr in almost every area ( shift points, hi rpm, load, hill climbs etc).

But I did punch it at 70 and got 9* and let off right away.

The vids should show everything pretty well. Did some jumps at 40, 60, 70 and a zero to 90 run.

Vids will be up later tonight

One question I'll ask to others, is about your system cleaner affecting KR.

So you DID put leaded fuel in your car? Leaded fuel that will affect your O2 sensor, which controls your AFR? While you're battling KR? Why did you even ask if you weren't going to listen to the advice given?

willwren wrote:So you DID put leaded fuel in your car? Leaded fuel that will affect your O2 sensor, which controls your AFR? While you're battling KR? Why did you even ask if you weren't going to listen to the advice given?

It was 50/50 on wether I should or not. Im getting a new o2 anyways. And I have no cat. So I didn't thinknit would hurt much. It dropped my kr quite a bit and my motor didn't blow up so I think I'm still doing good. I mixed it like 70/30, maybe even 75/25. As suggested to do by John at intense. He was the last person I talked to before I did it.

I take everyones input seriously and don't blow any if it off , since it seems that's what spur thinking.