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Ok, buddies car.... he says it overheated on him once and that he had been having to add coolant. So, he calls me to work on it for him...he tells me he thinks its a t-stat...i go buy one before i tear into it. then when i get back...i notice the wet spot under the passenger side of the car where it was parked. so i start it up and start looking around the water pump....what i saw was on the passenger side of the motor, above the water pump, there is a black platics looking elbow....i saw coolant leaking, or dripping from under this elbow area......

I am guessing the manifold has problems...but i don't know where to go with this to start diagnosing his problem.....

any ideas?

Those elbows are prone to failure. They expand and crack with engine heat. They're available in the HELP! section at most parts stores. Two come in the kit, but you'll probably only need one. If a thermostat was bad, there would be no loss of coolant, either the car would constantly overheat (stuck closed) or it would be running too cold or not heating up very fast (stuck open). Make sure you get all the old elbow out of both ends where it goes into, if it breaks inside there. Make sure you drain enough coolant so that there isn't any that spills on the ground, so you don't kill someone's pet, or poison the fish. I have only replaced my elbows when doing LIM gaskets, when the LIM wasn't bolted down, so i had some wiggle room, so I'm not sure how hard of a job it is to do when everything is bolted together.

EDIT: Was the elbow itself leaking, or the gasket below the elbow? The o-rings on the elbow also can fail. They come on the new elbow, and be sure to lube them with some petroleum jelly, rtv, or the like.

he told me he had been adding coolant, assuming its from the loss under the elbow area leaking.... unfortunately, with me not driving it regularly...im going by what he has told me on the overheating issue.

Is there anything i can do to say if the intake manifold is the culprit upper and or lower..

Is there obvious coolant loss around the lower intake area, or smoke out the tail pipe? Those are the main signs of a LIM gasket/UIM leak. I'd replace the elbow, wash the engine off well, then monitor the level and color of the coolant, as well as keep looking for leaks.

Spl170s wrote:Is there anything i can do to say if the intake manifold is the culprit upper and or lower..

Keep a check on the oil color. coolant in oil looks milk shake like. If you change your own oil, watch for liquid in the oil coming out of bottom of the pan. Only in cold winter weather where car is driven short trips would some condensed water show up there.

Watch the radiator to be sure the level stays full in it and it's sucking coolant back out of the reservoir. Take off the radiator cap and clean the underside where there's a small washer like piece that lets the radiator suck coolant back from tank as water volume shrinks but seals and keeps the pressure in. It can be badly gunked up especially with DexCool after time. I cleaned mine with a toothbrush and Dawn. (Note it was a spare toothbrush for shop use--I keep my olds ones since they come in handy.)

im starting to wonder if he didn't experience something as simple as a getting hot situatuion from a possible bad t-stat maybe causing this elbow piece or the o-rings to get hot and fail?

the car has sat unstarted for a day, i checked the oil, it looks pretty clean actually.

the only thing he did mention was the smell of antifreeze burning or something he said....but, i wonder if that isn't from the leak running down onto hot motor parts... i thought about checking a few plugs to see if they look ok....

This elbow piece.... it is the culprit. i started checking around it more and saw it was were the leak was dripping from...once i let the car warm up, it started spewing little from a pin hole on the top side of the elbow...i reved the motor from the TB and then it would spray like a fountain. So, this elbow is my problem it seems as far as coolant loss. I installed ne t-stat for good keeping anyway...cheap and easy job.

Next, where does the elbow connect into? i see it going under the tensioner assembly area...what does it plug into on that end? Trying to see what i can do to replace without getting down to LIM removal....hoping maybe something else on that other end could be taken loose......

any help appreciated!

IIRC, They both go into the tensioner. The top one is from the LIM to the tensioner. It only goes as far as you can see. I don't remember 100% where the bottom one goes into from the tensioner. They are only as long as they appear. If you're careful you can put the new one in with the LIM on.

after doing some reading and your comments here, i think i am going to pull the tensioner assembly off as well as alternator to accomplish that and replace both elbows. figure if ones leaking other will be soon.

thanks so much for the help!

A bit late to the party, but yes, you can swap both new elbows in by removing the alt/tensioner bracket assembly.

When you pull out the old elbows, make sure you pick ALL of it out (sometimes a bit breaks off inside the LIM), and that you do not gouge up the bore in the LIM with your picking tool. Might want to polish any corrosion off the bore in the LIM, also, maybe with a Dremel and small wirewheel or somesuch.

If the bore is really rough from corrosion, you might want to goop up the orange o-ring on the new elbow with RTV before inserting into the LIM.

The part number for the two elbows is Dorman/HELP! 47065. Both the elbows are in that package.

I recently changed the 2 plastic elbows. I put a very small amount of petroleum jelly on them. They seemed very loose when inserted. Everything was dry as a bone for over a week. Then it appears one of the elbows is leaking again.

Do I need to reinstall with RTV on them? Anyone have any further advise on the elbows?

Thanks

J

Yes, use RTV.

I installed my elbows bone dry and they didn't leak for years. This winter they started leaking again, so I put new elbows in and used RTV this time. I doubt they will leak again.

What type of RTV did you use? How long did you let it set before starting the engine?

Thanks for yor help.

J

I used Ultra Copper. I let it sit a few hours before starting the engine.

Thank you so much for your help.

A couple of last questions.

1. How much RTV should I put on and how? I am worried since you have to push the elbow tubs in as they are inserted, the RTV will smear and not be effective.

2. If I have to remove the tubes in the future, how will the RTV affect the removal?

Thanks again.

J

I ran a small bead (1/4") around the far end of the neck, so that as you push the elbow in, it smears backwards onto the rest of the elbow.

I have removed several elbows that have been RTV'd in with no problems. It does little as an adhesive.

Thank you very much. I feel a lot better about it now.

J

I replaced the plastic elbows again today and used the Ultra Copper RTV this time. I think I found the reason it leaked again this time. I was told on another site to put petrolium jelly on the O-Rings to get them to insert better. I think it ate into or softened the O-Rings because when I pulled the elbows out the O-Rings were completely flat and looked like they were molded into the groove.

Lesson learned DON't USE PETROLIUM JELLY.

Thanks again for your help.

J

Those orings have looked completely flat on all the ones I have removed as well. I doubt it's from the petrolium jelly. At least you got it fixed.