PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

i just noticed this thread. Im not that far away from you over in Indiana, PA. I go to alot of meets with a few different clubs in the Pitt area.

we'll have to get together some time...

Squilliam wrote:

Jrs3800 wrote:I am sorry to hear about the failure... If the trans is still okish, you could dig up a 3.33 GX3 Diff and the structurally improved diff cover( I think most 95's had this to begin with )

as for the radiator, do your searching... I know you can do better than 150...

Eh, It sounds like the roller clutch and sprag is on its way out so I'm going to drop another trans in it. However it looks like its going to be a slightly more daunting task than when I dropped a new tranny in my Intrepid, not only because of the work but I guess I'll have issues getting one to work?

What are your concerns? I have dealt with a battery of 4T60E's and have built a couple... Will hopefully be building myself a 3.29 HD trans in the future...

The 91.5-95 SC H and C body transmissions really aren't heavy duty... They used the same 3.33 diff( overall ratio of 2.97 ) as any other F79 or GX3 trans... the 95 Riv SC was the first to have the HD 3.29 Diff( 2.93 overall )... I would recommend looking for a 96 supercharged trans if at all possible, and you would swap the VSS reluctor onto the new trans diff to be 100% proper..

Ask questions and we will do our best to answer them for you..

Squilliam wrote:

Crack kills




I would have no problems rebuilding the 4t60e HD. I'm sure there's a way to upgrade to OBD2 and a 4t65e HD too.
I could never make a Buick into a beater.

Yes there are ways to adapt to a 4T65E... PITA but I know of one guy who has done this using a Trans Control Module from another GM car/truck..

He can use any SC trans really.. a 96 4T60E HD would more or less be a plug and play same for the 94-95... The VSS reluctor on the 94-95 is a 31 tooth, the 96 is a 30 tooth.. The difference isn't a lot.. and the difference from 2.97 to 2.93 will not be noticeable... so there are choices for him..

Okay, so what I've gotten from this so far is that I should go with a 96 trans for sure. Now, a yard in Cleveland has 2 low mileage units that they'd be willing to ship down here. Ones a 95, the other is a 96. The 96 is $100 more. What makes a 96 60HD so much better? Another thing I've heard is that the trans HAS to match the TCM or it won't work. Is that true? Do I also need the TCM from this donor car, if it even still exists,as well? This is my first GM trans swap, but not my first swap. I plan on getting it done ASAP and that depends on how long it takes for me to clear up some of these fitmant questions. I also planned on throwing a Trans Go Jr kit to help strengthen it up a tad before I throw it in. Thanks for the help guys

Is the 96 Trans from a 96 Bonneville L67, or a 96 Park Ave L67...

The 95 L67 trans will work as well...

Here is the deal tho...

The 95 is a 2.97 Overall ratio and is not really considered an HD...

The 96 HD trans is a bit different in that it does use an HD Diff( 3.29 ) and has an overall 2.93 final drive... But this will require you to use the 96 HD passenger side axle as well...

Now the 94-96 H and C body 4T60E is wired the same so they will be plug and play..

The 91-96 C Body and the 92-99 H bodies never used a TCM, this was part of the PCM as opposed to being a separate unit.. I don't think any C body or 87-05 H body ever used a TCM...

You having a 95 means that the PCM is not the brightest... It will only be looking for the VSS Pulses, Trans Temp among a couple of variables to make load and shift decisions...( if this was a 96 + the PCM would get a bit pissy if you didn't change the pules counts and in some cases modify the shift speeds a tad.. ) The 95 PCM isn't too picky..

Its not so much shift speed as it is shift RPM's.. With the 96 trans the VSS reluctor is a 30 count, and stock you have a 31 count.. So the PCM will think you are going a little slower than you actually are.. Maybe 1 mph off at 60..


I would use either trans... If the 95 trans is a low mileage unit, then it would save you from having to source another axle... So that could be a better route to go in..

2003 SSEi wrote:i just noticed this thread. Im not that far away from you over in Indiana, PA. I go to alot of meets with a few different clubs in the Pitt area.

we'll have to get together some time...

I know there's a car club up at IUP that my buddy is a part of, but I really don't know of any other ones. Would be cool to find out though!

Jrs3800 wrote:Is the 96 Trans from a 96 Bonneville L67, or a 96 Park Ave L67...

The 95 L67 trans will work as well...

Here is the deal tho...

The 95 is a 2.97 Overall ratio and is not really considered an HD...

The 96 HD trans is a bit different in that it does use an HD Diff( 3.29 ) and has an overall 2.93 final drive... But this will require you to use the 96 HD passenger side axle as well...

Now the 94-96 H and C body 4T60E is wired the same so they will be plug and play..

The 91-96 C Body and the 92-99 H bodies never used a TCM, this was part of the PCM as opposed to being a separate unit.. I don't think any C body or 87-05 H body ever used a TCM...

You having a 95 means that the PCM is not the brightest... It will only be looking for the VSS Pulses, Trans Temp among a couple of variables to make load and shift decisions...( if this was a 96 + the PCM would get a bit pissy if you didn't change the pules counts and in some cases modify the shift speeds a tad.. ) The 95 PCM isn't too picky..

Its not so much shift speed as it is shift RPM's.. With the 96 trans the VSS reluctor is a 30 count, and stock you have a 31 count.. So the PCM will think you are going a little slower than you actually are.. Maybe 1 mph off at 60..


I would use either trans... If the 95 trans is a low mileage unit, then it would save you from having to source another axle... So that could be a better route to go in..

Okay then! I think that this is plenty of info for me to go on. I just checked and the 95 trans is from another Ultra and has 69k and the 96 is from a Bonnie with 42k. Changing out an axle wont be an issue since everything will be apart anyways. I just want the sturdiest tranny that I can manage, and if thats the 96, I'll do that.

This should be a good example... The 3.29 HD diff is on the left and the Light Duty 3.05 is on the right...Notice that the Pin and spiders are considerably larger in the 3.29 HD...

Well that pretty much settles it for me. Its a 96 trans or bust now. Thanks for all the help, hopefully I can, once again, get this thing roadworthy. Cheers!

-Bill

If you need any help with the swap, give me a yell. Its not my first rodeo with these things.....LOL

Well, the "new" trans arrived today! 64,000 miles young and the lowest miles one I could find within 300 miles of me. I have to go and pick it up at a freight depot in the city tomorrow. Now comes the tricky part. I have no time this month to put it in myself. My Intrepid's tranny only took me 8 hours to swap out, but I have a feeling this car is going to be alot longer. I may just have to bite the bullet and have a shop slap it in for me.

It's good news, but too bad you don't have the time to rebuild the one you had. I'd offer to help with another buick, I'm getting really fast with the C/H body cars, but I have some of my own projects going on.

Been awhile since I stopped by this thread.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I'm glad to see you're not giving up on your Buick. The body styles of the mid-90's Buick's are my favorite's, and I hate seeing them disappear from the roads. That makes me happy to see you keeping yours going.

When I get my Lesabre back on the road, I should stop by Pittsburgh sometime and we could line up our cars for some good looking Buick shots.

Anyway, good luck with the transmission, looking forward to the progress!!

Well great news! Its back on the road and happier than ever. The old trans was definitely toast. Apart from the roller clutch being bad, which I'm almost sure had something to do with the diff failing, the diff was done done. The cover actually sheared off completely around and was just being held in place by the CV axle. Sure enough the pin sheared cleanly off and was just sitting inside there and one of the spiders looked like they went 10 rounds with a woodchipper. This new trans feels great though! No more grinding when it was coming to a stop and going from 3rd to 1st and no more clunking in park and neutral. The pump sounds alot better too. Im not used to it yet and I'm still preemptively wincing when Im coming to a stop and starting it up, lol. Feels like it pulls a little harder to boot. I'll have to get pics of the old trans here soon,or at least try to if the shop still has it. Next project on the list is the intake gasket, seems as if the new Victor Reinz gasket that came with the motor decided to pinch out along the valley and it's leaking oil. Some new Felpro gaskets will address that.

Glad you got it going again... When you are ready to do the gaskets, use some Permatex Gray... and the seals say install dry but I like to run a bead on it anyhow...

When you are ready I will toss up some pics if you like...

I prefer the ultra black for the valley. I've also used it on the SC snout and a transfer case.

So now that is runs, when are we getting together????

Since I'm in Pittsburgh too you'll have to let me know too! I love the PA's an will bring my T-type. Should be fun!

She'll be going under the knife here again withing the next 3 weeks for sure. I'm finally getting a large settlement thats been coming my way and Im going to use some of it on the PAU immediatley. I have my bi-annual LH meet to head down to in Raleigh and planned on taking this car since its pretty much brand new at this point and the guys want to see it. On my list...

- New radiator (not patched like mine currently)
- New upper/lower hoses
- LIM gasket (already purchsed though, figured I'd do it with the rad swap)
- Ceramic Brakes (all 4 corners)
- New radio because my cassette player stopped working.
- New rust free rear bumper (already have one picked out, just have to figure out how to remove the *dang* thing)

The list doesnt end there, I want to take care of the top end with some go fast goodies and machine work, but in order to get me 500 miles to and from, its a start.