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Here in cold climate they recommend to use fuel antifreeze to start the season that I have missed. So maybe there was some moisture accumulated. Who knows. Now it is much better.

I will keep observing and will report other abnormalities that I hope wont be any more.

Thanks,
Larry

if you have water in the tank you dont need to drain it. buy some heet and put it in. the alcohol combines with the water and doesnt freeze.

Hi folks,

How are you.

Here it is bloody cold minus 22C! It is very cold. Car starts very hard even after I have replaced sparkplugs.

As I finally turn i well (thanks to my strong battery) I hear rattling noize, and then it starts ok. As it warm up the rattling noise goes away.

What could be the reason of such hard starting?

Suggestions welcome.

Antifreeze is new and no way it freezes.

Hope you can help, I do not want to kill my car because of this cold. I hope the cold goes away soon, but the orecase does not looks like that.

Awaiting or your insights.

regards,
Larry

Your oil is too cold and does not flow at those temps.
The rattling is probably your lifters due to lack of oil.

Make sure it is 5W-30 or better yet 0W-30

Look into a block heater to pre warm the coolant. It also helps to warm up the oil.
In really cold climates.....like -40C ......some build fires under the crankcase to warm the oil enough to help it flow.

Thank you Paul, he thing is y oil is 5W30, I guess it means I can use it up to -30C? So mu starting up is very hard and that noise scares me very much.

Could I damage these lifters?

I have had old oil in the container in the trunk and I checked if its viscosity it was pretty viscous, and not like butter.

So that would be ok.

I remember I could start in the past easy with pre-turning engine (even at minus 26C) with the starter from the third time, but now it is like I have to wind it up in direct meaning of it.

Is there other choices I could chose from? I have no access to AC so block heating is out of question.

Looking to hat from you, and maybe some tech fix ups would help the start ups o be like before.

Regards,
Larry

A bit off topic but...

Larry, where are you from? No AC, frigid temps, doesn't sound like the US or Canada...

This winter in Eastern Canada is *fook* unbelievable cold.

Where are you located?

Larry

PS if I have mistyped some words in the previous mssg, sorry was early morning for me, the fingers did not wake up yet.

harofreak00 wrote:The fuel pump check valve keeps the pressure in the system when you turn off the car. It makes for easier starts. The tiny buzz you hear is the fuel pump running, its normal.

The IAT is located in the back of the airbox, its the only sensor, so it should be pretty easy to find.
The FPR is located in the picture above, with the blue thing on it.

Fuel doesn't freeze until like -100*F, do you think there was water in your gas? Maybe drain the tank and start over?

He added antifreeze to his tank, so if you maybe got some bad gas, run the tank under 1/4, and get gas at a different station, if possible.

Even if I use antifreeze, and get gas at different locations there is still the same problem.

To tell you, to start at -6C is easier then to start at -13C and so on.

One friend suggested there can be million reasons, even like a loose wire at the starter that takes all power to the starter and leaves none to the spark plugs.

I feel so helpless, anybody please help.

Larry.

laimisl wrote:Even if I use antifreeze, and get gas at different locations there is still the same problem.

To tell you, to start at -6C is easier then to start at -13C and so on.

One friend suggested there can be million reasons, even like a loose wire at the starter that takes all power to the starter and leaves none to the spark plugs.

I feel so helpless, anybody please help.

Larry.

Ok, for starters, 5W-30 isn't good to -30 C. They mean that when cold, the oil has a viscosity of 5 (very thin) to move and flow through the engine. When warmed up it's 30 (fairly thick) so that it sticks to moving parts and lubricates. Next oil change, change to 0W-30 synthetic, and a good oil filter. When it's this cold, some vehicles just have trouble starting. Make sure you get good gas, and add HEET or similar to keep water out.

You need to check your battery and starter.
If the starter has more than 100 K on it, it probably needs a rebuild.

Battery power lessens as the temp drops.

Check the connections are all tight and corrosion free.

Hi, thanks for replies and suggestions.

If my battery wouldn't be strong as a beast I would have never started my car these days.

For the synthetic oil, my car has 315k km mileage, and it always had mineral oil, so if I change to synthetic all seals would start leaking and good bye Bonnie.

Question why Honda and Toyota and even Hyunday starts ok and easy with that 5W30 oil?

I do not see the problem to be oil, gas, or battery as I could start up easier and nicer many times in some extreme cold conditions and now it is different.

My thought is I will try to see some specializing electrical guru. I will let you know how it went.

Meanwhile if you would have any more good suggestions please do not hesitate.

Also there is a idea maybe temperature sensor for fuel intake and the engine thinks it is warm, when it actually is bloody cold, so fuel supply is too small. Do you say that may sound ok? If yes where that sensor is located?

Thanks,
Larry

laimisl wrote:Hi, thanks for replies and suggestions.

If my battery wouldn't be strong as a beast I would have never started my car these days.

For the synthetic oil, my car has 315k km mileage, and it always had mineral oil, so if I change to synthetic all seals would start leaking and good bye Bonnie.

Question why Honda and Toyota and even Hyunday starts ok and easy with that 5W30 oil?

I do not see the problem to be oil, gas, or battery as I could start up easier and nicer many times in some extreme cold conditions and now it is different.

My thought is I will try to see some specializing electrical guru. I will let you know how it went.

Meanwhile if you would have any more good suggestions please do not hesitate.

Also there is a idea maybe temperature sensor for fuel intake and the engine thinks it is warm, when it actually is bloody cold, so fuel supply is too small. Do you say that may sound ok? If yes where that sensor is located?

Thanks,
Larry

Who said that all your seals will start leaking? Only if they're plugged up with sludge, and that's all that's holding them from sealing, then they will, but it will clean your motor out, and it will run better. I've noticed on both my cars a little boost in performance from going from conventional to synthetic, mainly it revs more freely, if that makes sense.

Your car looks pretty new it is 2003, mine is 1997 and has extreme 315k km on it. So I'd rather not risk with synthetic.

Larry

Andrew,

How do you diagnose if that is problem of: IAT?

I have started though very hard to day at -21C, but as soon as I have let go the gas pedal car engine off.

After restart and few seconds holding gas pedal slightly car started working ok.

Does this description help to diagnose the problem?

Larry

Have you had the car scanned for any codes?

Not yet, but I am looking into that very seriously.

My friend has a scanner, so maybe tomorrow on cold morning day.

What codes should I look into?

Do you have a list of codes?

And none of the warnings are on on the dash, could there still problems that the codes would identify?

Thanks,

Larry

Let us know what the code letters and numbers are.
They could point us in the right direction. Hopefully it's as simple as a $50 sensor, but maybe it could be more serious.

315 k kms is 197 k miles and that is a lot!

What is the history on this car? Have you owned it very long? Any major repairs to the engine?

How do you manually open the door you were talking about to make it so that there is always heat?

laimisl wrote:Also there is a idea maybe temperature sensor for fuel intake and the engine thinks it is warm, when it actually is bloody cold, so fuel supply is too small. Do you say that may sound ok? If yes where that sensor is located?

Yes, that could be the problem.

On my '95, the coolant temperature sensor is located on the lower from corner of the lower intake manifold, under the thermostat fitting. The sensor and the electrical connector for it are covered by a foil covered heat shield.

Test chart for IAT and CT sensors from an older thread:

bill buttermore wrote:I think there are charts in Chilton's that give resistance vs temperature, so all you need is a thermometer, some hot and cold water and an ohm-meter. The intake air temperature sensor (IAT) is fitted into the air intake before the throttle body. My old Chilton's (28200) provides this chart for both the intake air temperature sensor and the coolant temperature sensor:

Degrees F ohms
212............177
194............241
176............332
158............467
140............667
122............973
113...........1188
104...........1459
95.............1802
86.............2238
77.............2796
68.............3520
59.............4450
50.............5670
41.............7280
32.............9420
23............12300
14............16180
5..............21450
-4.............28680
-22...........52700
-40..........100700

Here is one way you can test the coolant temperature sensor:

Unscrew the sender from the engine, then attach an ohmmeter between the threads of the sensor and the electrical contact. Immerse the wet end of the sensor in liquid. Give the sensor some time (?) to equilibrate. Measure the temperature of the liquid with a conventional thermometer and the corresponding resistance measurement. Compare these to the chart above.

If you have an infrared (non-contact) thermometer, you could use it with the sensor out to directly measure the temperature of the wet end of the sensor, or with the sensor in place, to measure the temperature of the engine metal close to the sensor. Comparing the temperature of the nearby metal may introduce a temperature lag error if the temperature is changing (during warm-up or cool-down, for example.)

Realize that air voids in the engine under the sensor can cause erratic readings. Make sure you fill the coolant using the procedure provided in Techinfo.

Also, check the throttle position sensor for binding or high voltage with the throttle closed (should read between .2 volt and .74 volt at 0% throttle ange.)

If the ECT sensor, the IAT sensor, and the TP sensor all check out OK, consider cleaning the IAC (idle air control) valve and its related passages in the throttle body. It would be a good idea to remove the throttle body to clean it thoroughly, too.