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CMNTMXR57 wrote:Leon and I know GM, they DO go after the lowest bid. They nickle and dime everything on vehicles. This is one of the biggest complaints with GM, especially when it used to come to interiors.

And it's not what Leon is settling for in terms of a minimum standard. It's how GM operates and that's the system he (as did I), have to work around. Just the facts man.

I appreciate that Lane.

It just isn't me that has seen this happening, and ask a customer to repair something and when the estimate comes out, they complain about prices first and foremost, as they know of a independent shop down the street that can do it cheaper (using cheaper aftermarket parts) and they are happy to do that.
Where do you draw the line?
The car world is price/ cost driven, and most people just want it fixed as CHEAP as possible, and that is where the problem lays.


The majority of people would be happy to just have a clear, unbroken windshield in their car that doesn't leak.

There would be no "tone" if you had actually taken the time to comment based on what this entire thread is about. I don't know how many different ways I can explain this. I quote, "...if the part works as designed then it's doing its job. What more do you need?" With all due respect, this is an incredibly simplistic viewpoint. Again, put the lowest common denominator in your vehicle if you wish. That isn't what this whole issue was about.

To answer your question, it's clarity (particularly with the HUD display) and durability to resisting pitting and cracks. I have had dozens of windshields replaced in our fleet and aftermarket have NEVER held up as well as OEM in my experience.

This isn't just about a windshield. This is more about GM supplying an item (any item for that matter) that "appeared" to be OEM based on the description but may not meet the same standard as the original part. If this is how GM wants to do business (ie: no longer able to supply the original item) then make this apparent in the part description. For example "Equivalent", "OEM Aftermarket" or even a non-GM part number as they have done with many ACDelco "equivalent" parts.

Bottom line is yes, I'm pretty pissed that I paid this amount of money for what was purported to be an OEM grade windshield but does not appear to be the case.

BTW, I have never complained at a dealership regarding the price of a part or cost of service. It is what it is and I either say yes or no. If I don't like it then I look for alternatives. I was more than happy to pay the price for what I was led to believe was being supplied.

ddalder wrote:There would be no "tone" if you had actually taken the time to comment based on what this entire thread is about. I don't know how many different ways I can explain this. I quote, "...if the part works as designed then it's doing its job. What more do you need?" With all due respect, this is an incredibly simplistic viewpoint. Again, put the lowest common denominator in your vehicle if you wish. That isn't what this whole issue was about.

To answer your question, it's clarity (particularly with the HUD display) and durability to resisting pitting and cracks. I have had dozens of windshields replaced in our fleet and aftermarket have NEVER held up as well as OEM in my experience.

This isn't just about a windshield. This is more about GM supplying an item (any item for that matter) that "appeared" to be OEM based on the description but may not meet the same standard as the original part. If this is how GM wants to do business (ie: no longer able to supply the original item) then make this apparent in the part description. For example "Equivalent", "OEM Aftermarket" or even a non-GM part number as they have done with many ACDelco "equivalent" parts.

Bottom line is yes, I'm pretty pissed that I paid this amount of money for what was purported to be an OEM grade windshield but does not appear to be the case.

BTW, I have never complained at a dealership regarding the price of a part or cost of service. It is what it is and I either say yes or no. If I don't like it then I look for alternatives. I was more than happy to pay the price for what I was led to believe was being supplied.

Not all my comments were solely directed at the windshield in question, but to how the parts in general, are produced today and their availability to everyone concerned.

I completely understand your issue with the part not being as described, BUT, I am no glass installer, and very rarely have had to have a windshield replaced.
Sharing what you know about windshield glass has been interesting, to say the least.

If you are that "pissed" about the windshield, take it back (or has it been installed already?)
I see now reason why they wouldn't take it back if it is still in the same condition you received it in.
But then what is your next, best option to getting the windshield you desire?

I can see that you have put an incredible amount of work into you car modifying it to a level most people would never get to, but don't assume that I put just any old part in any one of my cars, just to save a buck. I have standards too!

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go out and check the carpeting in my trunk to see if the nap is all facing the same direction.

Haha!, just messing with you!
Take it easy!

So funny thing sorta on this topic.

The battery in the Caddy is obvioulsy getting weak. It displayed that this morning. I hope it'll start for my ride home. This is the original grey label AC/Delco. So this is now 9+ years on the original battery. This is about the 10th original AC/Delco battery I have had that has gone ~ 8 years. So when someone complains about AC/Delco being sh*t, I can't agree with that. But that is a different topic for another thread...

Anyway, my point being, it is a group 101 battery. Many places have a group 101. AutoZone has an Everlast, Adavance has an Ever something, O'Rielly's has their brand. Unfortunately we don't have a Die Hard in that category. :(

Anyway, I called a local GM dealer, got an OEM blue lable AC/Delco battery for ~$50 LESS than those others... Genuine GM parts LESS than the no name crap... LOL!!!

$144.95 (plus core obviously).

I can completely see Darcy's argument here, it wouldn't nearly be as bad if it was explicitly mentioned that the glass wasn't GM. I would be pissed too. If the windshields can be compared to batteries in anyways, then I would have qualms as well. As Lane outlines above, the factory batteries GM puts in their cars seem to last so much longer than the cheapo replacement brands at X auto parts store. To provide an example that goes in line with Lane's, Penny's original battery lasted until 2010! Seven years! Since 2010 I have had three other batteries in the car. Two of them were cheapo Autozone replacements, and my most recent one is back to an OEM blue label ACDelco replacement, but in the upsized SSEi spec. It was put in the car in late 2012, and it has NEVER given me issues. Even during my brief retrofitting stint when it would frequently be used for a couple hours a day to power lights and the radio. I guess it might be time to accept that we are going to be losing more and more OEM replacement parts as time goes on.

Ok, I'm going to go into harsh mode here...

PPG or Pilkington supply the GM factory as the lowest bidder. As part of that bid, they just put the "GM" label on it instead of "PPG" or "Pilkington"
PPG or Pilkington supply the aftermarket (whether it be through a GM service department or elsewhere). They just say "PPG" or "Pilkington" on it instead of "GM".

It is the same glass!

- It performs equal to or GREATER than the original OEM installed unit.
- It performs equal to or GREATER than the original interms of structural needs.
- It performs equal to or GREATER then the original in terms of laminate stability in case of shattering.
- It performs equal to or GREATER than the original in terms of accoustic requirements.

It just doesn't say "GM" on it.

What is the issue?

If this were a 1964 Bonneville having a full-off rotisserie restoration, where you were mimmicking the grease pen marks on the frame, similar to what an assembly line worker did as it came down the line and you checked off on it, and you were building it with ORIGINAL parts to ensure authenticity, and were going for Concours gold at a Pontiac show... I completely understand making sure you have an original windshield with original GM markings on it and not an aftermarket glass company markings.

However, this is not! This is a 2004. You all know what I've said about that in the past. It may mean something to you as it is your baby, but outside of that, no. The next person that buys it, is just looking for cheap transportation that they can use for a couple years. Not something they're locking away in the garage, hoping for some "pay-day" future and are also insistent that the window say "GM" on it!

I will say this for the 3rd time... If, after you got home, opened the box, and it wasn't something you expected to get (as it didn't say "GM" on it), and you feel that you paid too much for it NOT saying that, I WOULD'VE TAKEN IT BACK AND GOTTEN MY MONEY BACK!!!

GM doesn't care! They are required to maintain a parts listing for a certain timeframe that is equal to, or exceeds the original, and they don't care who/where it comes from as long as they can source it for the cheapest price, re-package it, and distribute it through the SPO Network.

In our service department, we didn't even order glass through the SPO. It was cheaper/easier to simply sublet any glass replacement issues to a local auto glass company (Express Auto Glass in Naperville if any of the locals need glass). Guess what they used? PPG or Pilkington glass. The same sh*t we would've gotten through SPO! And they got it for cheaper, installed, than we could internally just for the part. But guess what? It said "PPG" or "Pilkington" on it. No customer that I know of came back and said "OMG, that says PPG on it, NOT GM... I don't want it!"

I think we're beating the same dead horse here guys. I do think that if you feel your windshield was inferior, Darcy, you should have taken it back. However, I have been in a lot of OEM vehicles, cars, tractors, etc that had PGW (Formerly PPG) and Pilkington glass as OEM. Was it made to a different standard? It's hard to know unless you can track lineage of part numbers, and interview and depose the engineers and quality control inspectors.

However, like the guys said, GM is selling what it can to replace what needs replacing. They're not marking it GM anymore for some reason or another, and that's just the way the manufacturing world works. We've gotten "new" parts for tractors, from the dealership, that were the wrong color, because the supplier decided they were going to change it enough so it was more of a universal product instead of a specific one.

At the end of the day, I understand your frustration. However, it's the nature of our economy, and unless you stock up with factory supplied parts from day-1, this is a problem you can run into...

Lane, did you see my post about the first hand experience I have with dozens of aftermarket windshields? These are all PGW or Pilkington. They have never lasted as long under the same operating conditions as the ones that were installed by GM when we bought the vehicles new. I'm glad you're happy with your glass, but I'm not. Even the glass shops we use disagree with your opinion about them being the same. They may be made by the same company that supplies to GM, it doesn't mean they are made to the same standard required by GM. Sorry, but you're wrong.

As for returning it, this is a rather silly suggestion. Obviously I need a windshield or I would not have ordered one. How many times have you been successful in returning a special order, manufacturer direct part to a GM dealership? Maybe you can get away with that but I'll guarantee that 99.9% of the population can't. I have no intention of making this a problem for my dealership. They did nothing wrong and I'm not prepared to get them caught in the middle of this.

Finally, I respect that you were a technician at GM for some time and have acquired skill and knowledge. Please remember that others here also have some life and industry experience. Please don't preach as though you know all. I promise you that is not the case, none of us do. I'm basing my opinion on DIRECT experience with dozens of windshields in managing the maintenance of a moderately sized fleet AND consultations with other glass experts. Don't speak to me like I have no clue. You are a technician, great. You don't write policy for how GM specs and manages parts and quality control. I don't mean to be disrespectful here, but I don't tolerate being treated like an idiot either.

Leon, you said "Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go out and check the carpeting in my trunk to see if the nap is all facing the same direction." I actually find this quite funny... Anyone who know me also knows it's exactly the kind of thing I do!

Leave yourself messages in the nap!

Like "Vacuum Me"???

Pshhh, I doubt you put anything in your trunk to begin with, which begs the question why you need to vacuum it!

No, I'm not wrong. Period!

And now to add come comic relief to this thread. I'm not happy about this. I feel GM dropped the ball here. I should create a thread about it not being the same as the original. Lets see how quickly someone gets it...

CMNTMXR57 wrote:And now to add come comic relief to this thread. I'm not happy about this. I feel GM dropped the ball here. I should create a thread about it not being the same as the original. Lets see how quickly someone gets it...

Are you whining about the Saudi build???

Yup. Just not the same as made in 'Murica.

Just peel the sticker. No one will know

Can't now that I posted here in the tubez. All the world will know.

It's ok, in the Caddy it's completely hidden by a plastic battery cover. All you see is the two terminals. Because ---> Cadillac.

Cripes ! I'm old enough to remember when folks got upset when some GM parts were starting to be made in Canada and not Murica ! FWIW, any time I can buy an alternative product that's not made in China, I do.

And their cars too.