PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

1. Last I read, there would be special marked E15 pumps for 2007+ vehicles.

2. What good would ethanol pipelines be? It's not like the corn comes from a hole deep in the ground and thus being expensive to even get to. Corn can be produced/grown a lot of places, and is likely already being trucked into places it doesn't grow.

*reminisces about SacrmentoE85*

Ah, personally, I don't care, it's just gas to me.

fuelforthesoul1999 wrote:*reminisces about SacrmentoE85*

Ah, personally, I don't care, it's just gas to me.

Cody, I had COMPLETELY forgotten about him. Thanks for the laugh.

Your experience is no different than mine with E10. If you burn enough of it, it will "screw-up" your engine. I've seen the carbon build up, not even Seafoam will get the carbon out. And I've no doubt it does other bad things to your engine, even if I haven't found them yet. - BC

fuelforthesoul1999 wrote:*reminisces about SacrmentoE85*

Don't even get me started on him. I found his name attached to several pro E85 companies...but yet he wasnt biased.

Yep, look at all the carbon built up on this head:

(head from my 2k from this past summer, running with 10% since before I bought it)



and the other one:

http://www.planetnautique.com/vb3/showt ... th-Ethanol

Another potential problem exists with the gas stations:
Bear in mind that ethanol is very corrosive and attacks aluminum and
fiberglass tanks. It also attacks rubber fuel lines and other fuel system
components unless they were manufactured specifically for use with ethanol.
According to the oil and gas distributors we spoke with, they cleaned their station
tanks before adding ethanol fuels. However, it is true that some station owners
did not, and as a result, the new ethanol fuels scrubbed and scoured their tanks
free of old rust and accumulated debris. Then this loosened material actually
went into many vehicles causing much damage. We know of one person whom
this has already happened to, and reports of many others.

It is also noteworthy to mention that, due to the problems with ethanol, the oil
companies refuse to allow ethanol fuels to be pumped in their main pipelines.
They insist it be blended at the terminals where trucks are loaded for shipment to
gas stations. It is not good for the oil companies -- but it is fine for our vehicles.
Another potential problem with gas stations is the fact that whereas ethanol is
separating from fuel and collecting moister in our vehicles, it is also happening in
the tanks at the gas stations -- a fact you won’t hear much about. However, it is
common sense, as the same conditions exist in those underground tanks as
does in vehicle tanks. As long as the station owners are vigilant and check their
tanks on a frequent basis, and then pump out any ethanol and water collected on
the bottom, then perhaps all will be well. However, when left to accumulate to a
certain level, a concentration of water and ethanol is pumped into vehicles, again
causing much harm. One station attendant at a large Exxon station confided
they must check their tanks every day because of this very problem.
Other harmful effects of ethanol.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#As_a_fuel

Ethanol combustion in an internal combustion engine yields many of the products of incomplete combustion produced by gasoline and significantly larger amounts of formaldehyde and related species such as acetaldehyde. This leads to a significantly larger photochemical reactivity that generates much more ground level ozone. These data have been assembled into The Clean Fuels Report comparison of fuel emissionsand show that ethanol exhaust generates 2.14 times as much ozone as does gasoline exhaust. When this is added into the custom Localised Pollution Index (LPI) of The Clean Fuels Report the local pollution (pollution that contributes to smog) is 1.7 on a scale where gasoline is 1.0 and higher numbers signify greater pollution. The California Air Resources Board formalized this issue in 2008 by recognizing control standards for formaldehydes as an emissions control group, much like the conventional NOx and Reactive Organic Gases (ROGs).

World production of ethanol in 2006 was 51 gigalitres (1.3×1010 US gal), with 69% of the world supply coming from Brazil and the United States. More than 20% of Brazilian cars are able to use 100% ethanol as fuel, which includes ethanol-only engines and flex-fuel engines.[55] Flex-fuel engines in Brazil are able to work with all ethanol, all gasoline or any mixture of both. In the US flex-fuel vehicles can run on 0% to 85% ethanol (15% gasoline) since higher ethanol blends are not yet allowed or efficient. Brazil supports this population of ethanol-burning automobiles with large national infrastructure that produces ethanol from domestically grown sugar cane. Sugar cane not only has a greater concentration of sucrose than corn (by about 30%), but is also much easier to extract. The bagasse generated by the process is not wasted, but is used in power plants as a surprisingly efficient fuel to produce electricity.

The United States fuel ethanol industry is based largely on corn. According to the Renewable Fuels Association, as of October 30, 2007, 131 grain ethanol bio-refineries in the United States have the capacity to produce 7.0 billion US gallons (26 GL) of ethanol per year. An additional 72 construction projects underway (in the U.S.) can add 6.4 billion gallons of new capacity in the next 18 months. Over time, it is believed that a material portion of the ˜150 billion gallon per year market for gasoline will begin to be replaced with fuel ethanol.

United States Postal Service vehicle running on E85, a "flex-fuel" blend in Saint Paul, Minnesota.
One problem with ethanol is that because it is easily miscible with water, it cannot be efficiently shipped through modern pipelines, like liquid hydrocarbons, over long distances. Mechanics also have seen increased cases of damage to small engines, particularly the carburetor, attributable to ethanol's increased water retention in fuel over time.

I try to avoid Ethanol enriched gas as much as possible, the Durango gets horrendous MPGs with it. I go to a place called Pure, their gas is 100% "Pure" with no ethanol or additives. It's also 3-5 cents cheaper than everyone else, and the all the cars get better MPGs when we use it.

One shortfall? Pure is owned by Citgo.

1oldman wrote: We know of one person whom
this has already happened to, and reports of many others.

Whose "we"?? Are you a collective??

Ethanol is NOT corrosive to metals. It cannot be unless it's an acid or a base. It's neither, just an alcohol-based solvent. Your references to that are not good sources. Ethanol and Methanol DO attract moisture, but the amount is so small, and benefts your combustion cycle anyway, that it really doesn't matter.

Carbon buildup is also bunko. I tear down my motor every year and I've never seen ANY buildup. I've been running E10 (due to lack of choice) for 3 years now.

myfirstbonnie wrote:Yep, look at all the carbon built up on this head:

(head from my 2k from this past summer, running with 10% since before I bought it)



and the other one:

Those look fine to me. They look as good or better than the heads that came off my friend's 93 Mustang (been on ethanol free premium for years). When the heads came off my 92's original engine, they had carbon buildup, to the point it would flake off, probably due to me monkeying with the fuel mixture. And it too was ethanol free premium. Though it's starting to change locally, premium, and frequently midgrade, are ethanol free.

I've been running extended trial periods with 87 with and without ethanol in the G8. As far as I can tell, it's 1 or 2 mpg different.

Will the carbon show up in the tailpipe? My 07 Caravan, with 148k miles has no carbon in the tailpipe at all, and its diet is more e10 than standard 100 percent. Id say the inside of the pipe is cleaner than outside.

The Bonnevilles have some carbon, but its been there as long as I can remember, well before e10 came to Oklahoma

Who will be the first with an OBDII, to reprogram their PCM, then run E85 it for a year?

U.S. corn ethanol "was not a good policy"-Gore

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOil ... 22?sp=true

Corrupt subsidies pushing ethanol on the market hopefully will die now with the new congress and correction coming in 2012. When a viable substitute or additive is brought to and from the free market, then go for it. When Algore even admits it, it was bad.

I burn non-oxy, and it better be available to me in the future.

Al Gore... what a pandering putz.

J Wikoff wrote:Al Gore... what a pandering putz.

LIKE.

1oldman wrote:Who will be the first with an OBDII, to reprogram their PCM, then run E85 it for a year?

Um, look on GP sites. Some of those guys have been doing it for years. We've been running E85 in our suburban for 8 years.

Beast, then MN must have "different" E85 than here 'cause that engine would be "toast" if you did it that long with our "E85". Even the new vehicles have trouble with it. The wife's '09 CTS (4 months old at the time) only got 15mpg on a tank once. It wasn't the car 'cause we filled up (Texaco) the SSE at the same time and it only got 15 too. The "E85" we get here is "crap", - BC

Well first off, our Suburban is VIN Z, Flex Fuel Compatible. It's designed to run any combination of E0 to E85. The Grand Prix guys that run E85 run larger injectors and tune for it.

Check out the HP Tuners forums. Quite a few people there are running E85 successfully after recalibrating the PCMs.