KR elimination Volume 2 (2000 SSEi)

[99ssei]

Here's how I did my O2s. Take your average and divide that by your target. In our case that would 940. Based on your histogram above, your average was somewhere around 880. 880 / 940 = .94, so I would increase your 7500+ by 6%. Then, scale down toward 7000hz so there aren't any big steps in your curve (example, 4%, 3%, 2%, 1%). I wouldn't go lower than 7000 because now you're getting into where your LTFTs lock in at during WOT.

[Allmachtige]

Ahhhhhhhh I see. Thanks I'll try that.

[PDXGTP]

You have to ignore & discriminate selectively.

LOL! I am, but still asking...

I command 14.7 AFR until 28%, then it hits 11.75. Just confirming, dunno if I'm confusing you or you are confusing me...probably both.

Main conclusion I'm coming to is that my O2's are not enriching after various 1% increase to my Hz range above 28% TPS (~6500Hz by the way). Resetting my trims didn't help with my O2's in the slightest. Maybe time will let them settle in.

I feel as though I need to add a good 2-3% to see if I get any results. Is this normal? If so this is the leanest running car GM has ever put out on the market.

I'd give it 5% more and see if you can see any results.
Its a bummer you can't set up the histrogram so you can copy from the scanner, then paste special multiply by % in the editor.
Sorry, I haven't been able to look at the stuff you posted.
i'll try to do it today so I can help you set up a histrogram. When you have the option of copy from the scanner and paste special multiply by %... you'll get it dialed in - in no time.

[Allmachtige]

It rained this evening so I wasn't in the mood to just sit their spinning the tires, but I did get a few accelerations that triggered partial throttle KR. First thought...my lean O2's are contributing to this. Second thought...I have none and need assistance.

BUT! O2's are looking better:


Files:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct7_MAF_11.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct7_MAF_11.hpl

BIN:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/inten ... MAF_10.hpt

Let me know ASAP if those links don't work, my Linux box is acting up.

[99ssei]

Don't make any changes based on data collected in the rain. The PCM can adjust to temperature changes and barometric changes, but cannot adjust to humidity. You'll only be chasing your tail again. On the flip side, it's good to see the O2's are getting up there. Once you get your O2's in range, start looking at your AE. I've already bumped my max delta up 50% and may need to go up more.

[Allmachtige]

Don't make any changes based on data collected in the rain. The PCM can adjust to temperature changes and barometric changes, but cannot adjust to humidity. You'll only be chasing your tail again. On the flip side, it's good to see the O2's are getting up there. Once you get your O2's in range, start looking at your AE. I've already bumped my max delta up 50% and may need to go up more.

AE? Delta? Got any reading material for me?

[99ssei]

I'm still learning the AE part. You may or may not need it. For now, I'd focus on your PE MAF 02's.
If you want to do some extracurricular reading...I found this page on AE. Though it speaks to V6 turbos, the concept should be the same.
http://www.turbotweak.com/AE1.pdf

[1994se]

This whole process is a lot easier with a wideband O2 correct?

[Allmachtige]

This whole process is a lot easier with a wideband O2 correct?

"Easier" isn't a term I'd recommend throwing around. However, I would agree that you can get a much more accurate tune.

[PDXGTP]

This whole process is a lot easier with a wideband O2 correct?

"Easier" isn't a term I'd recommend throwing around. However, I would agree that you can get a much more accurate tune.

Both.. easier and more accurate.

[Allmachtige]

This whole process is a lot easier with a wideband O2 correct?

"Easier" isn't a term I'd recommend throwing around. However, I would agree that you can get a much more accurate tune.

Both.. easier and more accurate.

Aw come now...you gotta scare him!

Anyway, take a peak from this evening:


Scan files:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct9_MAF_15.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct9_MAF_15.hpl

I made a well thought out adjustment to the MAF (for tomorrow's scan) and it should be one of the last changes to the curve before I move on.

[99ssei]

I made a well thought out adjustment to the MAF (for tomorrow's scan) and it should be one of the last changes to the curve before I move on.

Don't count on it being the last change. As you tool around with other parameters, like timing, PE enrichment and AE enrichment, possibly tranny settings, you'll find there are still tiny tweaks to make. Good news is, you're pretty much "in range."

To comment on the wideband....it will tell you the EXACT air/fuel ratio that is coming out the engine. With the Pro HPT, you can incorporate the wideband data in the scans so you can see exactly what the actual out put of your fueling trims are doing, which makes it easier and more accurate. Since you and I have the standard version, we have to rely on the 930-940 rule.
Cheers!

[Allmachtige]

O2's are almost there. I think maybe another 1% increase for 7500Hz+.

Please take a look at my scan files and let me know what you think:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct10_MAF_16.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct10_MAF_16.hpl

[Allmachtige]

My O2's are a tad rich now, but I need help figuring out why I get so much KR during shifts. I hit up to 15KR on shifts!

It might be mechanical failure happening in the trans, but Thomas said something about my PCM hunting for shifts. I'm not sure; I need others to take a look at my last scan and BIN file for assistance.

Scan:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct12_MAF_21.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct12_MAF_21.hpl

BIN:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/inten ... MAF_17.hpt

[Allmachtige]

Uhg... This is getting worse, but under some full throttle runs everything is satisfactory.

Take a look at my following scan files from this morning. The encompass about 3 WOT runs, with the first 2 smacking a massive 15KR during shifts and the last one just peachy:

http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct14_MAF_22.csv
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/O2_oct14_MAF_22.hpl

My BIN file for good measure:
http://ente.got-game.org/hptuners/inten ... MAF_18.hpt

[Allmachtige]

So I'm thinking about putting 1/2 a pint of Trans Tune in the trans for good measure. I also noticed my SC belt vibrates a scary amount when I revved the engine after changing a bad 3.5" idler pulley. The replacement pulley is of sub-par quality so I have a replacement from RockAuto on the way as well as a larger tension pulley from Intense (we'll see if I can fit my belt around this, but nice to have one).

Then I got to looking at Torque Management settings and started pondering at this screen:


Specifically the "TPS" and "RPM" settings. Do these seem values seem sufficient?

[99ssei]

I see two things in your scan (please note I'm only an amateur at this so take my advice with a grain of salt). I noticed your KR starts just before you enter PE (.9* @ 95 kPa / 2724 rpm) and increases until the max (6.5* @ 128 kPa / 3225 rpm), then it starts to decay until 5000 rpms. You don't hit 100% TPS until KR decays down to 3.8* @ 3952 rpm (you never let off after that until 86 mph). THEN, during the up shift to 2nd gear, KR instantly pegs 14.8* (rpms are still dropping down to make the shift). From 3605 to 4683, you're still at 100% throttle and the KR decays off (which is normal). Later on, in your second run to 83, I noticed you let off the gas and all commanded timing goes to 0. You're in FTC 1 and timing is 0 at 78mph down to 71, then once back on the gas, timing resumes (not sure if that's normal). At that same point, your 02's hit 4 mv, yet you've got 183 kPa of pressure (Definitely not normal). What happened there?

Before we go any further...word of advice...KR over 6 or 7, LET OFF THE THROTTLE! You risk doing severe internal damage that will cost you.

Now, I'm no expert, but I think I see two separate issues. First...It could be a false knock coming from the tranny OR you could have a tranny issue. Have you had any shifting problems lately? Try disabling all torque management for your trans (FYI, the screen shot you posted shows your abuse mode and torque reduction master enables are disabled - which is what we want). Make sure your engine and SC torque management are also disabled. Once you've reduced KR, you can turn them on again to see if KR comes back, but for now leave them off.

Second...you might have to adjust your timing. Your LTFTs are @ 0 and your O2s are better looking than mine. I don't have my laptop with me so I can't see what your commanded timing is (high octane), so I would start by looking at your histogram and at the first cell that hits 3* of KR at WOT, go into your high octane table an reduce that number by 1 (looking at your scan data, I'd say it's the 2600 or 2800 @ .92 g/cyl cell). Just like in the MAF, you should adjust the cells around the one you change so they "blend" in (I only changed 4 cells). Write the bin, go for another run. Let us know how it goes.

[Allmachtige]

Tranny is fine under normal operating conditions. Fluid is clean and smells normal.

Are you referring to adjusting the timing in the Good Fuel Spark table? (http://wiki.opentuner3800.com/index.php ... ing_Tables)

Do you recall where any extra torque management settings may be located?

[99ssei]

I have not done the wiki timing tune / eddy table modifier. Maybe you can be the guinea pig? :-)
Nor am I even a novice when it comes to timing. I think I need to do a timing tune myself.

As for torque management, please refer to page 13 of my thread.
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... &start=240

[Allmachtige]

I believe I took care of all the Torque Management. Review my BIN when you get the chance...I'm currently comparing to an old BIN you sent me from your car.