ssei transmission interchange

[mass dude]

i have a 2000 ssei which i purchased last july form a garage whom said the car came from the auto auction with a bad engine. They informed me they replaced the entire engine and tranny from a 2002 ssei which was totalled from the rear. The 2002 powertrain combination had 36k when it was installed in July of 07. Now 40k later my transmission lost overdrive. I called all local salvage yards looking for a replacement and was told that that these transmissions are year specific. Meing you must use a 2000 trans in a 2000 car only and so forth. Does any one out there know if this is true. I have learned that in 2003 there were electronic changes made which makes this vintage and anything newer non-compatable. How about 2000 to 2002 interchangeability? Also that there is like 3 different transmission codes out there for each year. Does this also apply to SC cars.

[L67Silhouette]

BONNEVILLE 00 A.T., FWD; w/supercharger, ident 0CHB
BONNEVILLE 00 A.T., FWD; w/supercharger, ident 0FHB
BONNEVILLE 00 A.T., FWD; w/supercharger, ident 0FCB
PARK AVENUE 00 A.T., FWD; w/supercharger, ident 0FCB

I'm sure there might be a way to use a newer trans, but this is the interchange for a 2000...

[agrazela]

You are correct that 2003+ has different electronics and is incompatible with your PCM.
Also, 1999 and earlier has a different trans cooler line system that is physically incompatible with 2000+.

So 2000-2002 it is. Specifically, from Pontiac Bonneville (SSEi) or Buick Park Avenue Ultra (PAU).
(Unlike SSEi or PAU, Grand Prix GTP in that year range does not have internal mode switch, and is not compatible with your harness.)

So here's the list of what's compatible as more-or-less a drop-in:
2000 SSEi (Codes 0FHB, 0CHB)
2000 PAU (Codes 0FCB, 0FDB)
2001 SSEi (Codes 1CHB, 1FCB)
2001 PAU (Code 1FCB)
2002 SSEi (Code 2CHB)
2002 PAU (Code 2FCB)

Note that the codes listed in italics have a slightly higher stall torque converter than what would have come originally with your 2000 SSEi; all the non-italic are the same TC as your original. Otherwise, any of these transmission is identical to what originally came in your car.

For your reference:
http://dtcc.cz28.com/transmission/index.htm

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Now, all that said, losing 4th gear (overdrive) in 4T65E prior to 2003 is common, and is usually due to GM's use of a non-hardened overdrive clutch hub up to '03. Over time, the engagement teeth wear down and the trans loses overdrive.

See here for more details about this (and other) common 4T65E issues:
http://www.tripleedgeperformance.com/4T ... n_Info.php

Here's a used 2003 hardened hub (left) and a used 1998 non-hardened hub (right):


Once those teeth go completely, no more 4th gear.

Assuming this is your issue (which is highly likely), it can be fixed DIY with a good manual, standard tools, a trans drop, probably 6 to 8 hours labor, and around $150 to $250 in parts and fluids. You would need to replace (at minimum):
-the stripped hub with a hardened 2003+ hub (about $60 to $70 new)
-valve body separator plate gaskets (about $10 to $20 new) and case cover gaskets (also about $10 to $20 new)

Other possible replacement items:
-Internal harness (should be OK unless you break it removing it; about $40 to $50 new)
-Side cover gasket (also should be OK for reuse 90% of the time; otherwise about $75 to $85 new)

Might as well check the drive chains for stretch while you're in there, because it's right there (would be $75 to $85 for the new part if needs replacing). Also check the reluctor wheel for loose pins (would be $30 to $40 for new part).

To have an honest shop do all this, I'd expect you to be quoted $600 to $900.

[mass dude]

Thanks guys for your help. With all said a used 4t65e is not the way to go. I am going to have the complete unit overhauled.

[agrazela]

Thanks guys for your help. With all said a used 4t65e is not the way to go. I am going to have the complete unit overhauled.

Sounds good. They likely will be using a new hardened 4th clutch hub, as I'm sure the unhardened are no longer made. Make sure you specify though, so they don't use a new old-stock pre-2003 part

[Rebel25A]

Hi all...I have a 2000 Bonneville SSEi with the infamous 4T65E-HD...it lost overdrive much as described at 100K...it rolled without it until around 170K when it finally quit completely...I had it built by a shop in Indy who does some stuff for my work...it performed flawlessly until 210K...when it wiped out the planetary gear and chain...as anyone who has ever had the fun and frivolous job of R & R of one of these on the garage floor it leaves a little to be desired for fun factor...the same shop who built it the first time built it just two weeks ago...well today I had an unpleasant problem awaiting me when I arrived home from work...my son drives the car the majority of the time now and when I pulled in my drive I noticed a "trail" leading to its parking spot...I follow the trail and find a nice big juicy puddle of fresh fluid under the car...I check the level and it is down but not dangerously low...but it is leaking real steady when I start it and back it in the garage for a closer look...I find that the fluid is coming from the left axle area...I think...well I bought new CV halfshafts maybe I didn't seat that one well enough and it popped out...WRONG...I pull the wheel, take the nut off the axle and seperate the ball joint and give the axle a little tug...and the shaft from inside the trans comes out maybe two inches with the CV halfshaft still securely attached to it...WTF!!!...when they rebuilt it they must have not secured this right??...or the manner of securement has come off allowing the shaft to come free...now I am a pretty decent mechanic...but I know squat about a automatic transaxle like this...all I can think is I have the wonderful task of removing the trans ahead of me don't I??...I am not going to be very happy when I take it back to the shop in that case...

[agrazela]

...I find that the fluid is coming from the left axle area...I think...well I bought new CV halfshafts maybe I didn't seat that one well enough and it popped out...WRONG...I pull the wheel, take the nut off the axle and seperate the ball joint and give the axle a little tug...and the shaft from inside the trans comes out maybe two inches with the CV halfshaft still securely attached to it...WTF!!!...when they rebuilt it they must have not secured this right??...or the manner of securement has come off allowing the shaft to come free...now I am a pretty decent mechanic...but I know squat about a automatic transaxle like this...all I can think is I have the wonderful task of removing the trans ahead of me don't I??...I am not going to be very happy when I take it back to the shop in that case...

Rebel,

Sounds like the output shaft's c-clip came loose from the differential, and the shaft is being pulled out with the driver's axle. The output shaft ties the differential (on passenger's side) to the driver's side axle, passing sideways through the transaxle.

You're going to have to pull the entire output shaft--still connected to the driver's side axle--out of the transaxle (be very careful and slow; it passes through an easily broken plastic lube dam), somehow separate the output shaft from the driver's axle (it is also held in on that side with a c-clip), carefully reinsert the output shaft through the transaxle from the passenger's side, smack the end with a mallet or some such to re-seat the c-clip into the differential, then reinstall the driver's axle.

(Alternatively, you could also remove the passenger's axle, differential housing, and differential; smack the output shaft home into the diff; then reinstall the diffy with output shaft from the driver's side; then reinstall the housing and the axles)

At some point in there you might as well replace the driver's side metal-clad axle oil seal, as that's probably where the leak is from (and that seal may be trashed from the loose axle).

It's possible the shop didn't seat the shaft into the diffy properly. It's also possible the c-clip broke. I suppose there's also a miniscule chance that perhaps the shop installed a 1997 4T65E-HD diffy during the rebuild, which would physically fit in the 98+ ring gear and diffy housing, but will not seat properly to a 98+ output shaft (now that I consider it, you should pull the diffy to check that).

In any event it does not yet sound to me like the trans needs to be dropped or removed from the car. Make sure you check the condition of the teeth on the shaft, the teeth inside the diffy, etc. and also look for any metal shavings in your pan and filter (if anything looks chewed up).

All this is getting off the OP's topic, so I'd advise starting a new thread if you need more help once you get going on this.

[Rebel25A]

Thanks...the tranny shop said basically the same thing...they are going to pick up the whole car and fix it...load off my mind