1st car recommendation

[Nick M]

Hi all, new to the forum here. I am looking to buy my son his first car soon. He likes the Grand Am GT 2003 - 2005 vintage. We are considering the Grand Am, Grand Prix, or Bonneville models too. There seems to be quite the discussion concerning the intake manifold issues. In your experience have most of the intakes failed by now (2008) and been repaired or do I look forward to replacing the intake shortly after buying the car? How about the dex-cool coolant. Do I just drain and flush the coolant and replace with glycol? I like these cars and plan on making the necessary repairs that go along with buying a used car. I just wanted to see what everyone's opinion was concerning one of these for a first car. Thanks!!

[clm2112]

The intake manifold leaks are always a question mark when looking at the cars. It may have been changed, it may not, or it may have been changed with the same style of gaskets and refilled with Dex-Cool (perpetuating the problem.)

With any of them, if it has Dex-cool and isn't leaking, drain it out of the radiator and block, refill with glycol, then keep an eye on the oil & coolant from that point forward for any potential leaking from the current gaskets (replace at the first sign of trouble.)

It's the kind of problem that doesn't have to be fatal, but has to be monitored and managed. (Kinda like the automotive equivelant of diabetes.)

When you go check out a used 3800 powered car, pull the dipstick and look for the latte colored oil. The seller can always change the oil to hide the problem, so also look at the underside of the oil filler cap and the visible rockers in the valve cover. It will be pretty obvious if coolant is going into the oil...motor oil isn't supposed to look like a milkshake

[lash]

Also keep in mind that we have a number of permanent fixes for these problems, depending upon the year car you get. For series 2 3800s, that is after 1996 vintage, there is an aluminum-framed LIM gasket that eliminates that problem. As for the composite UIMs, there are a couple options we've developed (not me, but club members and gearheads) to fix this for the rest of the life of your car.

[Nick M]

Thanks for the input. I will look it over closely when shopping for cars.

[Nick M]

I just looked at a Grand Am. It has a 3400 engine 3.4 litre. Does the whole intake manifold gasket problem apply to this engine too?

[Ragsdale]

I think he would be happy with a bonneville speaking from my own experience. Big reliable safe car, you wouldn't have to worry as much about him getting hurt too.

[Archon]

Yes, the 3400 engines also have intake problems. Arguably, worse than the 3800s, and they can also have head gasket problems. Felpro has a newer designed metal framed gasket for the 3400s lower intake.

[bonnevillain]

i chose the bonneville over the others because of the excellent crash test ratings. the grand prix did pretty bad compared to the bonneville.

[Archon]

I wouldn't necessarily rule out the Grand Prixs. This is my niece's car after she got hit head on by a car passing those waiting at a red light. She walked away from it.

[The extension jpg has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[bonnevillain]

from what i read, they were nowhere near as good in the ratings. not the worst out there, but it certainly turned me off them

[Archon]

The Bonneville's rate better, but the Grand Prix's are far from unsafe. For the OP, information regarding the NHTSA crash tests can be found here.
http://www.safercar.gov/

[bonnevillain]

the 04+ like in the picture did much better than i realized. i assumed we were talking about the older style for a first car, but

/off topic

[lspitzley]

As far as 3400, my sister has a Grand Am and we had to replace the lower intake gaskets. Not fun. The gaskets were weaved through the pushrods so we had to take all of them out. Doing it on my LeSabre's 3800 was a lot easier.

[Nick M]

Found a 2002 Grand Am GT and it has the leaking intake manifold gasket. According to my local mechanic the 3.4 litre motor pushes the coolant out externally rather than leaking into the oil. He told me what to look for on the engine and sure enough the leak is there. Trying to negotiate a repair with the used car dealer since the car looks good otherwise.

[Archon]

I'll have to disagree with your mechanic. This is the underside of the valve covers of a 3400 that had a leaking intake gasket. They do leak internally.


If you are concerned about crash tests, the Grand Ams did not do well at all in side impacts.

[2000Silverbullet]

Buy him as new and as safe (big) a car as possible.
The Bonneville is the obvious choice. Many more safety features than the Grand Prix or Grand Am.
2003 is good but so are 2000-2002 SSEi's
Make sure it has the L67 SC 3800 engine.

Don't worry about the intake manifold gasket unless the car has 100,000 miles on it. It's a simple job that we can take you through step by step.

[Nick M]

The car has 63,000 miles on it. The mechanic told me what to look for when doing an initial inspection of the car. There was some "gook" coming out at the manifold base. I am assuming the internal leakage goes with it too from your picture. I am going to bring it to the shop for a closer inspection and then try to settle on a price with the seller. From the various forums I have seen the typical problems associated with the car, i.e. intake manifold, power window hardware issues, a/c / heat fan speed only works on high speed. Window and fan issues are easy, rather cheap fixes but the intake may be a little pricey. Stranger thing was realizing there was no transmission fluid dipstick under the hood.

[00Beast]

Bonneville is a great car. Plenty of room, good power, efficient, and do well in accidents. I'm 17, and ask me how I know.




That was my car in July. I now have a 2003 SSEi that I got for $6800. Great deals are out there, you just got to look.