Post-Rebuild Expectations on 2000 SSEi

[crash93ssei]

I get furious when I see that shops get away with raping people like this.....


I know I do all my work myself so I am used to dirt cheap prices, but $4,100 for a head gasket swap is just flat out insane!
$50 labor to swap the serpentine belt?
$330 for a heater core.... was yours actually bad?
$40 for spark plugs?

Just ridiculous.....

One thing comes to mind that may help you a LOT in the future... every part that comes off your car you are entitled to either get it back or in the very least inspect it to make sure it needs replaced. Those power steering hoses and the pump, they might not have had anything really wrong with them enough to actually NEED replacing.

[jedwards83]

I know I do all my work myself so I am used to dirt cheap prices, but $4,100 for a head gasket swap is just flat out insane!

He had new tires, with the guarantee, heater core, and a couple extra things to get the bill to $4,100, so it wasn't ALL to replace a head gasket.

That said, it still qualifies as a lubeless ass raping if I've ever seen it. That goes for anytime you sink big $$$ into something that probably doesn't need to be fixed! I'd make them show me the head gasket and exactly where it was leaking. Why do people trust these places just on their word is way beyond me.

If I had a dollar for every time one of these retarded chains wanted to screw some money out of me, I could retire early. Either they're trying to sell me something god-awful retarded fuel "system" service for a couple hundred, or they're telling me something's wrong that isn't. Like when they told me my CV joint on my truck was leaking grease and it needed replaced, when in fact it was just a very slow ATF leak that I'd been topping off every now and again. Ugh, can you tell I hate those places?

[00Beast]

I had a place try charging my Aunt $1400 for a UIM/LIM job on her 01 (recently totalled). I told her to look elsewhere, turns out a co-worker's son was a mechanic, charged her around $500 for the same job. Pays to look/ask around.

[rcox58]

I've had all the same hesitations you guys have had about shops and the work they claim is needed. I never can settle on one repair shop because they all always seem to get over on me. I ended up at Mr. Tire based on someone else's recommendation about how honest these guys were to her.

In this case, I knew a huge repair was needed when I brought it to them because there was already coolant in the oil. Their repair, however costly, at least fixed that part of the problem and the car ran great for over a month. They never said anything about potential damage to the engine block that could show up down the line like it has. If I knew there was a potential for further damage to show up, I would have went with the complete replacement.

I haven't spoken to the shop yet. The particular mechanic on my car is off on Mondays so today was the first day I could have discussed it with them. I think the fact they didn't call me tells m they're sweating the liability some and procrastinating the conversation we have to have. If they accept some of the liability to share the cost with me, I can't really pull the car from there or I'll have to pay full price elsewhere. I am working on getting some other prices to see if it's still a better deal to have somebody else do it. I'm fortunate that I don't need the car right now so I have the time to sweat Mr. Tire a little and look into alternatives. I just can't get my head aroun the "cut bait" concept because of what I've invested in the car over the 4 or 5 years since it's been paid off.

Par for the course...no matter what I decide will prove to be the wrong decision the way the last few years have been going.

[jedwards83]

Don't beat yourself up over it, it's a learning experience.

When the lower intake manifold gasket gets bad enough, they can allow coolant into the oil. Some don't get that bad, and some only introduce coolant into the nearby intake plenum. But considering the rarity of HG problems on these engines (iron block and iron head makes for even thermal expansion, and VERY GOOD headgasket sealing), and the fact that *ALL* lower intake manifolds *WILL* fail at some point, you likely were faced with a $500 repair that you spent a couple thousand on. That's why these tire / do-it-all chains are worthless. They should stick to tires and shocks and selling some unsuspecting customer one of their fuel system flushes.

If the repair place was aware that the oil had coolant contamination, I would consider it very unethical to repair the top end, with no mention of the potential damage to the lower end. That probably would have steered you toward a replacement engine, and while the price may be similar in the long run, it would have been a lot less headache. I really hope they do the right thing and work with you on the repairs. Perhaps ask why they made no mention of potential problems down the road due to coolant in the oil.

I've seen my fair share of 3800's and 60 degrees suffer the same fate. If the car sees routine maintenance, fluids are kept up on, these types of problems are often discovered during service before it's too late. Unfortunately there are many who care for their cars who have had to replace the engine through no fault of their own.

Whether to keep it or not? I really believe that if the engine survives a intake gasket failure (provided there was no significant oil contamination obviously), it'll go more or less forever as long as it's maintained. Lets face it, all of these engines will have had a UIM/LIM gasket failure with varying severity at some point in its life, except those who change out the gaskets early. But I don't see many people doing repairs on things that aren't broken, and the vast majority of owners are not forum readers or aware that a problem with these gaskets exists.

My experience with the Bonneville tells me that if you're not someone who minds turning a wrench and learning to work on the car, you'll keep having trouble, because that's just the nature of the beast. Lots of things can go wrong with these cars as they age, they're far from new cars anymore where you'd expect no problems. I'd take a look at the list of common failures posted on this forum, and if you've not tacked a fair percentage of those, I'd consider cutting my losses.

[Jrs3800]

I am floored by this.... This is why I hate most shops around... Pure Consumer Rape...

I could have put an L32 Series III in your car, and would have been looking for an aluminum gasket L32 to avoid any issues with the intake gaskets...

My assumption for the engine would have ran in the $700-$1100 range... I would have charged another $500-600 to install, fluids plugs and the like included...

A Pontiac Dealer installed the engine in my 95 Bonneville... I knew the dealer, good friend of the family... $1700ish out the door... engine and all fluids and gaskets.....

What they did to you was nothing short of Rape...

[myfirstbonnie]

[rcox58]

I'm in a very good bargaining position after getting additional advice from a more reputable shop nearby. I'm pretty sure I can get them installing a used egine at no cost to me. That strikes me as being a little close to inheritting someone else's problem if the engine has more miles that reported. The shop has offered an option of having a remanufactured Jasper longblock installed and discounting the amount I have already paid. They originally offered an estimate of $5K for the remanuf. engine. That would put me at about an additional $2K and I'd have the 3 year warranty. I have to call them today and give them my final position on this. Anyone have any last thouhts on this price for a remanuf. engine. For those outside Jersey, in this state the hourly rates are published and standard whether dealer or independent shop. They have me at an estimated 14 hours to put in the remanuf. Thoughts?

[rcox58]

I just came across a thread on here from back in June where the general consensus was that a remanuf engine for even $4K isn't worth it when a used one is so much cheaper. I'm incined to agree and am thinking of telling the shop just that. I can stop payment on the Visa I used and they'll take the money back until they invesigate. I have a local 30+ year shop that has offered to be my expert witness when Visa investigates. I don't think I can lose by stopping the payment, letting Visa sort it out and find in my favor while, in the meantime taking the car to the reputable guy. I'm pretty sure I'm decided. You guys have been a huge help on my posts as well as on the guy's post from June.

[rcox58]

For anybody interested, I was able to win this by disputing the original shop's work and oversights with Visa. Visa charged the labor fee of $3,200 back to the original shop and I was able to use that money to pay another shop for a complete used engine with a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. I feel vindicated.