My unfinished mod list for my 99 SE

[00Beast]

Also, IIRC the S3 Injectors are a lower lb/hr rating than the stock. Still not sure why you want to do that mod...

[Bing]

The 2 questioned mods weren't thought of as a performance enhancing mod, just an update to the system.

The S3 injectors and rail wasn't for increased fuel, just an updated fuel system. Those parts are left over from the Grand Prix motor that I put in the car. The thought was to eliminate a fuel line running into the engine compartment (the return line).

I have paid attention to what you have said in other posts and know that my car won't be a candidate for bigger ones.

The hot wire kit thought went along the line that the factory wiring is an inadequate gauge. As far as I have learned this is pretty much a given for our cars. In an effort to lighten up the car and save costs GM went with the smallest gauge wire they could get away with for the electrical system in general. Again this isn't a performance minded mod. It's not an effort to try and deliver more fuel but, just help the pump run the most efficiently it can with a correctly sized wire.

Most of the parts needed for either of these 2 projects I already have, so cost would be minimal. Yes, time has to be taken into consideration for any project. Because time is money.

More than likely I would never end up doing the S3 rail and injectors, just to much work. Plus I would have to pay for some PCM tuning to run the S3 injectors, because it's a constant pressure system.

The hot wire kit I figured couldn't hurt anything, so why not.

Thank you for your concerns and questions.

[willwren]

"Updated" gets you nothing. I fail to see how it's even an update in any sense. Different, yes. Better or newer or updated, no. Just different. Same with the hotwire. Your FPR is still dumping unused fuel back to the tank, so how is your pump not keeping up?

It wouldn't hurt anything to paint your left rear wheel pink, either. And it'll benefit you just as much in performance. The hotwire kit are for those cars that NEED it.

[BonneMe]

Updating adds variables to repair diagnosing down the line, can make getting the correct parts trickey, etc.

[Bing]

So basically the factory designed the voltage drop into the system?
I'm not trying to be obtuse here, just seems the voltage drop these cars experience makes me wonder what kind of strain it puts on the electrical components. Is this a serious concern or just one of my own imagination?

The point about the S3 fuel system has been made and understood. Like I said in my previous post "probably not going to do it" and as of now, I will not be doing it.





I do have some pink paint on hand, left over from painting my daughters bike. Maybe I can put the rest of it to use somewhere.

[willwren]

The voltage drop was designed in by physics and engineering. 99.9% of the cars here leave it alone, and many of them are cranking out far more power. Every electrical device has a voltage drop, based on the resistance from point to point. A 1" long piece of copper stranded wire has a voltage drop. Even a super-conductor does.

[Bing]

I understand the principals of voltage drop and how to calculate it, as I know you probably do to. That aside, it was a thought that seemed to make sense to me.

You bring up good points and I thank you for the time and explanation.

I'll focus my time else where for now and keep saving for the other mods and upgrades.
Like getting it switched over to a FE2 suspension, hood vents, exhaust work (cat forward).

Still in the middle of repairing/modifying the headliner for now.

[willwren]

As long as you spend your money and time on mods that actually improve performance, driveability, and comfort for yourself, you'll do ok. Don't just mod for the sake of modding, and don't fall into the mod trap........looking at mods others have done whether they need them or not. Scrutinize them carefully to decide whether they're worth your time or not.

[Bing]

All right sounds good, heres my updated list. I don't really have a set power goal in mind but just want it to perform a little better.

Next up is going to be exhaust. This would include a P-log, 2 1/2" down pipe, and high flow cat.

#2 Suspension, I've got FE2 rear springs coming,but I still need to collect, front struts, front and rear FE2 sway bar and upgrade to poly bushings where possible (control arms,end links, etc.). Also replace the tie rod ends, and ball joints.

#3 GTA hood vents/w drip pans made up and installed (maybe before suspension upgrade).

#4 Pcm reprogrammed.

#5 Ratio rockers if the car turns into a non daily driver.

How about those, what do you think?

[Bugsi]

Hood vents aren't really going to do much for you, where suspension will. I'd do suspension before even thinking about hood vents. I mean really, hood vents might lower your engine compartment temps a few degrees, but are you drag racing your car or driving it? Better suspension will give you better handling every moment you're driving. But hood vents? Not a major experience-changer, but potentially helpful if you spend a lot of time at a drag strip.

But I mostly want to chime in about the electrical system mods. I've heard a number of people boast about wiring upgrade mods, but frankly, unless you're trying to use your car engine as an electric power generator to power amplifiers with enough power to play Yankee Stadium, I think it's basically a bunch of hype.

If your factory wiring is in good shape (and it isn't always in good shape, battery cables are known to corrode to the point of failure), it should be fine for everything your car needs. Basically you need the battery to power the starter, and you need the alternator to keep the battery charged, and to power your headlights, wipers, HVAC blower, power windows, and car stereo. The stock wiring can do all that. Upgrading it to high voltage power transmission cables won't make your car go faster, it won't make your car take turns better, or make your windshield clearer. If you're going to spend money on your car, try to focus on things that actually make a noticeable difference.

For people with monster car stereos, there are rather specific power cable gauge requirements for handling the amperage needs of amplifiers, but honestly I think if people really need that much power in an audio system, a car is really a horrible listening environment for it. Considering you deleted the air conditioning, presumably for a performance gain, you really shouldn't be looking at making your car into a portable stage amplification system (and I presume you are not doing that).

[willwren]

Reverse the order of #4 and #5.

[00Beast]

I'm assuming he ditched his A/C because it was broken and he didn't feel like spending the money to fix it.

[95naSTA]

ER Rockers only for #5. Otherwise you're wasting your money. And you may see improved highway MPGs with them.

[Bing]

ER Rockers only for #5. Otherwise you're wasting your money. And you may see improved highway MPGs with them.

I remember you saying that in one of my earlier posts. What makes the ER rockers so good?

Reverse the order of #4 and #5.

I'll definitely keep that in mind.





Bugsi I know you have a lot of knowledge about car audio and electronics in general and respect your input.

I am not an audiophile, my car has the stock 7 band equalizer tape deck. I use a cassette adapter for my mp3 player to enjoy my music, I know, not very technological. I did replace the stock speakers with Rockford Fosgate Prime 152's for the front and 1693's for the rear deck.

I wasn't trying to make a point about boosting voltage to a stupid level. But rather question weather the factory wiring to key components was adequate or was it just enough to get by. As an electrician I have to take this into consideration everyday, as voltage drop can be damaging and inefficient.

Now the hood vents are a mod and can be one for performance as you stated for drag racing. But they can also be done for looks as well as performance.

Why do people spend 400-600$ for a different set of wheels for their car? For a different look.
I do see your point about doing the suspension work before the hood vents.

The reason the hood vents would be done before the suspension work would be the cost. Spending just 30-50$ for some hood vents to change the look of my car rather inexpensively doesn't seem that bad. While the suspension will probably run me 400-500$ by the time its all said and done. I'm in the process of collecting parts for the suspension upgrade. Rear springs, front and rear sway bars, as many poly parts that I can get new and then new shocks and struts.

I'm not trying to come off as offended or difficult.

Just simply state my reasons and thoughts.

[Phantom]

If you have access to good wire for cheap I do not see why you would not upgrade the alt wire especially if the wire that it is currently using is 12 years old. The alternator will not have to work as hard to charge the battery that could increase the MPGs a little but could only be noticeable if you are driving for the best millage normally (I assume you are not).

I understand not wanting to mess with the LIM if you do not need to but if you ever get to the point of removing it clean up the castings. I purchased an 05 GP UIM and LIM for my 03 GP porting the LIM before installing it and will say that the 05 LIM was better than the 03 but not by much. I am in the process of cleaning the 03 LIM for my 98 Bonneville sometime in the future.

Also I wanted to note that I did not see you mention what TB you are using but you will need an adapter that you will modify to fit the newer UIM. I recommend using a TB from a super charged car the opening will match the UIM (this can be done later but should be done before/when reprogramming the PCM). I noticed that the intake was quieter when going from the stock TB to a SC TB, if you are not wanting to modify the TB make sure that the MAF is the same as what you are currently using or that the TB comes with a MAF.

[95naSTA]

ER Rockers only for #5. Otherwise you're wasting your money. And you may see improved highway MPGs with them.

I remember you saying that in one of my earlier posts. What makes the ER rockers so good?

The ER split ratio was R&D'd to be the optimum Ratio for the L36 (obviously applicable to the L26).
They will provide the most area under the curve compared to any other rocker combo.
Easy Performance did the R&D way back when ('02) then sold the ratio info to ZZP.
http://www.easyperformance.com/Tech_Inf ... ntent.html

There's a set on ClubGP right now for 200 shipped IIRC.

[Bing]

If you have access to good wire for cheap I do not see why you would not upgrade the alt wire especially if the wire that it is currently using is 12 years old. The alternator will not have to work as hard to charge the battery that could increase the MPGs a little but could only be noticeable if you are driving for the best millage normally (I assume you are not).

I understand not wanting to mess with the LIM if you do not need to but if you ever get to the point of removing it clean up the castings. I purchased an 05 GP UIM and LIM for my 03 GP porting the LIM before installing it and will say that the 05 LIM was better than the 03 but not by much. I am in the process of cleaning the 03 LIM for my 98 Bonneville sometime in the future.

Also I wanted to note that I did not see you mention what TB you are using but you will need an adapter that you will modify to fit the newer UIM. I recommend using a TB from a super charged car the opening will match the UIM (this can be done later but should be done before/when reprogramming the PCM). I noticed that the intake was quieter when going from the stock TB to a SC TB, if you are not wanting to modify the TB make sure that the MAF is the same as what you are currently using or that the TB comes with a MAF.

When I installed the motor in my car I basically had it striped down to a long block. I looked over the LIM ports and they actually matched pretty good. Being an 07 I decided that with the motor having aluminum gaskets for everything I would do the LIM gaskets later on down the road.

I'm using the stock throttle body on an APN UIM. I don't have any plans on switching to the aluminum UIM (to much work).

[Bugsi]

[Why do people spend 400-600$ for a different set of wheels for their car? For a different look. <snip> The reason the hood vents would be done before the suspension work would be the cost. Spending just 30-50$ for some hood vents to change the look of my car rather inexpensively doesn't seem that bad.

You'll have to forgive me, but I can't resist pointing out that Bill's suggestion of painting the left rear wheel pink is probably also an inexpensive mod that will change the look of the car.

Ultimately if you want to do inexpensive appearance mods, just go for it. (I replaced my amber corner lights with clear corners. It's a purely appearance-only mod.) If you're asking for advice on which mods make the most difference, we're pretty much limited to considering mods with some tangible benefit to performance/safety/comfort/handling/etc.