Brakes? Updated new problem

[irish91983]

Hi All

I have a soft brake pedal I replaced the front pads and rotors a few months ago and replaced the rears today and after bleeding them i still have a really soft pedal, it goes at the way down to the floor..fluid is full.. Could a wheel clinder cause this? Any help would be awesome need to fix asap.

thanks again
Keith

(New problem on second page please help)

[alec_b]

Look for a leak all over the car. If you don't have a leak, you've got a failed master cylinder. They leak fluid internally and it gets sucked back through the vacuum booster and eventually out the tail pipe. Master cylinders are inexpensive and easy to change yourself.

[myfirstbonnie]

Did it go all the way to the floor before you started? How did you bleed them? The suggested bleeding order is right rear, then the left rear, then the right front, and then the left front.

[irish91983]

I did see a leak when i took off the left drum it looked like the wheel cylinder leaking but after put it all back together i dont see any leaks at this point.. I bled the brakes in that order with a power bleeder cause i was all alone.

[irish91983]

I decided to go ahead and replace the wheel cylinder so i replaced that and beld the brakes again and still have spongy pedal.. but when i was bleeding them the pass side bled like it should but on the drivers side (side with new wheel cylinder) barely any fluid came out..any ideas?

Thanks Keith

[myfirstbonnie]

You should have got a goot spray from all 4 wheels. You may want to pull the bleed fitting out of that wheel cylinder and either replace it or make sure it is clear. There may be some debri blocking the port and not letting the air/fluid out.

They sell those fittings rather cheap at most places. I usually take the fitting into Napa and they match them up.

[irish91983]

The Bleeder that doesnt have alot coming out it came new with the wheel cylinder.

[Archon]

A fair amount of brake fluid can leak out of the lines while the cylinder is replaced. So, it could take a while to finally see some fluid show up.

[irish91983]

Pedal is still spongy even after a few days. Should I try to bleed them again or should I start looking at some other issuse?

Thanks Keith

[00Beast]

I'd bleed again, then see what happens. Does the pedal progressively go further? Like, you push it the first time, it goes an inch, next time 2 inches, etc? If so, it's probably a master cylinder. But, Bleed the lines and make sure the fluid is topped off first, then go from there.

[irish91983]

The pedeal is soft pretty much all the time..while bleeding them it gets hard and soft like they should but once the car starts it goes all the way to the floor. while driving its pretty much to the floor and when i hit them hard the car will pull hard to one side (i need alinement bad) and it feels like im only getting brakes in the front but there is wear showing on the rear shoes .

[xX3800Xx]

Pump the brakes with the car running like 5 or 6 times until it gets tight then hold it hard. If the pedal slowly sinks back down then its the seals internally on the master cyl. Its probably not leaking into the brake booster if the res doesnt go down. If it has leaked into the booster you will need to replace that too.

[irish91983]

Thats the thing is doesnt get thight at all unless the car is off and still doesnt feel right, i could pump it 40 times and it would still be soft and almost to the floor while car is running

[00Beast]

Hmm. So when it's off the pedal is fine, but as soon as you turn the car on, it goes spongy? Sounds like the booster if so.

[J Wikoff]

From new guy geofffinlay in his intro thread:

For the Gentleman with the low brake pedal problem, you need to establish that your low pedal ISN'T caused by excessive movement or air at any of the wheels. Use proper clamping pliers (designed for the job) and carefully pinch off each of the flex lines at the same time. You don't need to crush them, just gently close them off. Start the car and try the brake pedal. If you still have the same type of soft feel/ excess travel the problem isn't at any of the wheels.

If the pedal becomes high and hard, remove the pliers one at a time and try the pedal each time. As you remove the pliers from a healthy wheel, the pedal will drop just a little further, one of them at least will be different.

If the REAR disk brakes have the integral parking brake and the parking brake is never used, they will not adjust. If everything is free, you "MAY" be able to get them to adjust up by applying/releasing the parking brake a number of times (correct procedure required). Failing that, the piston/s will need to be manually adjusted.

If the FRONT calipers themselves aren't moving (adjusting position) freely, eventually the piston/brake pad travel becomes too long and that can be hard to spot. This is a common problem on later Chev vans. Freeing up the calipers on their sliders is the fix. If this is in the wrong place, can someone copy/paste it to the right place until I learn to navigate the site properly.

[irish91983]

Im gonna try the procedure above when i get home today. But I was thinking I didnt replace my drums when I did the shoes could old drums cause a soft pedal and drums are to thin?

[geofffinlay]

Forget the drums for now, unless the shoes are so far out of adjustment that they are contributing to the problem. You'll find all of that out when you isolate the corners with your pinch-off pliers

Geoff.

Sorry Guys, I have a couple of Lotus pics to post, but I guess I'm dumb since I haven't figured it out. There should be something on the site that leads dummies like me in the right direction "note to admin". I even joined the Photobucket thing (not crazy about having that on my computer - if I can't get it to work tonight, it's coming out) and uploaded the two shots. I'd rather watch the last game of the World Series right now.

[J Wikoff]

Hey, geofffinlay. Check out your intro thread. I put a link to the picture how-to. Hope it helps.

[irish91983]

So i blocked off all 4 lines and and taking them off one by one didnt really make a differance. Im thinking that its either a booster or master cylinder. Cause I noticed when i hit the brakes it makes a hiss and squeak sound while it going down and when i had my old Z24 i replaced the booster and it fixed that problem. Is there any way to tell is the booster or master cylinder is bad?


I just pulled of my masrter cylinder and found what looks like some brake fliud between the cylinder and the booster. If i had spilled any could it have leaked in like that because its on the bottom of where the master goes in to the boster.

Thanks Keith

[irish91983]

Thanks every one for all the info and help. The problem ended up being the master cylinder all is good now

Thanks Again
Keith