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 Post subject: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:04 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:52 pm
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Year and Trim: 2001 SSEi Bonneville
I have a 94 bonneville SE. It doesn't have SC or the steering only the SSe's and SSei have and it doesn't have all the goodies the higher level H bodies have. It's fast, don't get me wrong, it has a K&N CAI which helps a lot. It has also new struts. And it does have first rate breaks, hot wires and colder range plugs, upper medium quality tires and a used motor replacement in 2005 and a limiter remover chip. New kick butt stereo and all the electrical is sound, and justa couple dents. With all my records and considering blue book recommendations I'd be stoked with $3k or a counter offer of $2,250 , That btw is total b.s. as I have thousands more and sweat and blood and whispers of devotion to her.

A better new car or a better modified car?

I don't (read as DON'T) want to sell her but I have two possibilties as I see it. What do you think? Either one or the other:...

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Black 2001 Bonneville SSEi. Rated 240 HP.

Issues: Exhaust, Windshield, AC leak, K$N Drop-In,
Black Betty.140K mi
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Bonny. Red 1994 SE 186K mi.: Gone and I don't worry anymore


Last edited by spoiledred94 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:35 am 
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2013 Ford Focus ST3
Wheeeeeeee!
Ok, basically all you did was talk about your current car, now what do you want to achieve by buying a new car? It sounds like you're doing just fine with the car you have now...

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:44 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:52 pm
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Year and Trim: 2001 SSEi Bonneville
OK, that's understandable, I was wandering.

I have a car that I "love" alot. She has been so easy to undersatnd and repair. I have kept her running good. I just feel good at the wheel. As far as in town I can about settle any score... I also know her limitations, which are not few.

I just want some opinions from like minded Bonneville owners. I don't want to give up my bonneville, but she isn't going to get any faster...and I need faster.

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Black 2001 Bonneville SSEi. Rated 240 HP.

Issues: Exhaust, Windshield, AC leak, K$N Drop-In,
Black Betty.140K mi
ImageImage

Bonny. Red 1994 SE 186K mi.: Gone and I don't worry anymore


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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:51 am 
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then buy an ssei?

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:00 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:52 pm
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Year and Trim: 2001 SSEi Bonneville
prolly it, what's are good years for the mid 90's SSei? And why not an SSE? A 94 especially and keep in mind the similarities for that model year range, like same number of components in the engine compartment, oil capacity, spark plug type, same wiper size etc.

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Black 2001 Bonneville SSEi. Rated 240 HP.

Issues: Exhaust, Windshield, AC leak, K$N Drop-In,
Black Betty.140K mi
ImageImage

Bonny. Red 1994 SE 186K mi.: Gone and I don't worry anymore


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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:33 am 
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A 94 SSE is going to get you the same power curve you currently have. You should be looking at SSEis.

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:09 am 
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I have no idea what you're getting at as far as number of components in the engine bay, etc, but for a good car, I personally can't say I would recommend many domestic cars besides anything with the 3800. As far as Japanese cars and the like, I don't usually make a habit of recommending them as I generally am a strong believer in buying American..however, there are many good ones across many ranges of sizes and companies...and when looking for that kind of vehicle, I probably would be asking a forum that deals specifically, individually with those types, making your own evaluation of its problems and tallying it up.

Personally..I'd rather deal with any of the 3800s downfalls...because all in all, out of many cars I've driven, with the exception of some of the higher end vehicles which are obviously out of my price range, the Bonneville does beat them out pretty easily.

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Now: '11 Ford Fusion SEL | 240hp Gen II VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Ingot Silver Metallic | 84k
Now: '07 Ford Fusion SEL | 221hp Gen I VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Tungsten Silver Metallic | 113k
Then: '96 Buick Park Avenue Ultra | 240hp Series II L67 | Medium Dark Lichen | 2.93:1 | Bought: JAN 11 @ 135k | Accident: FEB 3 '12 | Crushed: MAR 1 '13 @ 153K
Then: '98 Pontiac Bonneville SSE | 205hp Series II 3800 L36 | Topaz Firemist | 3.05:1 | Bought: NOV '09 @ 74k | Accident: MAY 28 '10 | Crushed: MAR 15 '11 @ 84k
Then: '93 Pontiac Bonneville SE | 170hp Series I 3800 L27 | Dark Yellow Green | 3.06:1 | Bought: JULY '07 @ 92k | Sold: JULY '12 @ 118k
Then: '89 Pontiac Bonneville LE | 165hp Pre-Series I 3800 LN3 | Medium Garnet Red | 2.84:1 | Bought: JAN '05 @ 117k | Sold: SEP 30 '07 @ 152k


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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:02 am 
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If you love your car that much, have you considered an S2 drivetrain/wiring/pcm swap?

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:06 am 
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 11:52 pm
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Location: Williamsburg, Va
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1993 Bonneville SSE
2001 Bonneville SSEi
BlackHawk99 wrote:
A 94 SSE is going to get you the same power curve you currently have. You should be looking at SSEis.


Right, the SSE is only going to get you different trim package and more weight, as the SSE has more bells and whistles.

There is still some more you can invest into your L27. I don't see 1.8 Rockers mentioned there for one thing. You can port the LIM and Exhaust Manifolds as well to get some more out of it.

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'93 SSE "Guinevere" Mods: Intense FWI | 180º T-Stat | Flowmaster 80 | Magnaflow Cat | Projector Fogs | Clear Corners | ES Poly End Links
'01 SSEi "Chloe" Mods: Intense FWI | GenV | WBS Intercooled | 3.2 MPS | SSAC Headers | Northstar TB | DTM Tuned | TEP Trans | B&M Trans Cooler
Dual AeroForce | Solid Mounts | 255 Walbro Pump | Fuel Logs | GXP STB & Sway Bars | CSS Lowering Springs | Painted Calipers & Grille | Disabled DRL
Magnaflow Mufflers | Magnaflow Cat | GXP Seats & Trim | 35 % Tint | Cleared & Tinted Tails | repinS Retrofited Morimoto Mini H1 | 19" GT500 Wheels
Achievements: Guinevere - 244k mi | 16.27 @ 84.10mph | March '11 COTM :: Chloe - 208k mi | 13.85 @ 102mph | January '09 COTM


Last edited by WhiteArrow3800 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 10:01 pm
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Location: Pittsburg, KS 6662
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BillBoost37 wrote:
If you love your car that much, have you considered an S2 drivetrain/wiring/pcm swap?


x2

Finding decent L67 setups in wrecked/beat up cars isn't too hard to do. This would be fairly cheap and while you have the motor out you could install some mods (rockers, cam, headers, oil pressure kit, etc) while still running the current set-up.

OR

Just buy a 98-99 L67 powered car and mod it. You could keep your current one for a few months (or indefinitely if you choose) while you mod the new car.

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"Energy and Persistence Conquer all Things" --Benjamin Franklin
-1989 Buick LeSabre T Type: 220k miles
-1987 Fiero GT: 224k miles
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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:52 pm
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Year and Trim: 2001 SSEi Bonneville
I have another whole thread in performance about modifying my car for more HP. It looks very expensive and as far as I could tell everyone was against the idea of swapping motors and transmissions. I think I could do it for a little less than $2K. But again the final rec was new car or I end up with an endless PITA. I would like to do that L67 into an L27 swap. But I don't want to ignore the advice of the senior gearheads here that took the time an effort to explain it to me.

The rockers sound like a good idea for the meantime. What would they do for my motor (mechanically and increase in HP)? I'll look at my FSM for the procedure if it's real possibility. Would my car handle the extra power? Porting the manifolds is a question. It was my understanding that they are pretty good stock. No real room for improvement. No better available headers either. Even if these ideas are only small improvements it would be worth doing. Improvement is good. Thanks for the tip 93 SSE. I have an extra throttle body lying around I bought here. Is there anything I can do with it?

WJ, thanks for the advice on choosing another 3800. What I was getting at was how similar are the components on say 94-95 SSei and the SE? Do they have same part #'s for most of the hard parts? Do most of the systems work the same way?

_________________
Black 2001 Bonneville SSEi. Rated 240 HP.

Issues: Exhaust, Windshield, AC leak, K$N Drop-In,
Black Betty.140K mi
ImageImage

Bonny. Red 1994 SE 186K mi.: Gone and I don't worry anymore


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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:03 pm 
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spoiledred94 wrote:
I have another whole thread in performance about modifying my car for more HP. It looks very expensive and as far as I could tell everyone was against the idea of swapping motors and transmissions. I think I could do it for a little less than $2K. But again the final rec was new car or I end up with an endless PITA. I would like to do that L67 into an L27 swap. But I don't want to ignore the advice of the senior gearheads here that took the time an effort to explain it to me.

The rockers sound like a good idea for the meantime. What would they do for my motor (mechanically and increase in HP)? I'll look at my FSM for the procedure if it's real possibility. Would my car handle the extra power? Porting the manifolds is a question. It was my understanding that they are pretty good stock. No real room for improvement. No better available headers either. Even if these ideas are only small improvements it would be worth doing. Improvement is good. Thanks for the tip 93 SSE. I have an extra throttle body lying around I bought here. Is there anything I can do with it?

WJ, thanks for the advice on choosing another 3800. What I was getting at was how similar are the components on say 94-95 SSei and the SE? Do they have same part #'s for most of the hard parts? Do most of the systems work the same way?

I would be looking for a 97-99 SSEi or SSE SC, because they are OBD 2, have the 4T65E-HD, and still have AL7's and all that. Very few engine parts are similar enough to re-use, especially internals, between the S1 L27 and L67, AFAIK. The 97-99 SSEi's are relatively cheap, and you can still find some good condition low mile cars if you look hard enough.

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Last edited by 00Beast on Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:57 am
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Year and Trim: 2003 SSEi.

LOTS of Mods
i loved the crap out of my 93, and prolly put more work into that car than 95% on the People on BC. I added the AL7's, FE2 suspension, HUD, had about $5,000 in audio, had another $1,500 in Neons and crap.......countless YEARS spent on that car.......once i drove my 03, newer, better, more refined, and power. Dropping the pedal on the 03 made me forget that 93 every time


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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:52 pm
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Year and Trim: 2001 SSEi Bonneville
1993 sle wrote:
i loved the crap out of my 93, and prolly put more work into that car than 95% on the People on BC. I added the AL7's, FE2 suspension, HUD, had about $5,000 in audio, had another $1,500 in Neons and crap.......countless YEARS spent on that car.......once i drove my 03, newer, better, more refined, and power. Dropping the pedal on the 03 made me forget that 93 every time


I've been wondering about the 2000+ bonnevilles. I would think the curve would be wider as well as on both ends. But, the newer ones are just not as nice looking.


I think I'd like your route to a better car. And I guess the 93's are close to the 94-95's. Does your 93 have normal or forced aspiration?. It's just been the consensus here that the 94 SE's leave very little room for improvement.

Quote:
I would be looking for a 97-99 SSEi or SSE SC, because they are OBD 2, have the 4T65E-HD, and still have AL7's and all that. Very few engine parts are similar enough to re-use, especially internals, between the S1 L27 and L67, AFAIK. The 97-99 SSEi's are relatively cheap, and you can still find some good condition low mile cars if you look hard enough.

Late 90's are a possibilty. I don't know much about them though. OBD 2, does that mean you can hook up a real time tuner? I like the 4t65e but what is "A"L27?

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Black 2001 Bonneville SSEi. Rated 240 HP.

Issues: Exhaust, Windshield, AC leak, K$N Drop-In,
Black Betty.140K mi
ImageImage

Bonny. Red 1994 SE 186K mi.: Gone and I don't worry anymore


Last edited by spoiledred94 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:41 pm 
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he got rid of his 93 i tihnk??
and a l27 is the code for your engine, its the series 1 N/A v6 3800

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97 SSei: Black : 140k: gutted box with AMsoil, pullied, clear corners, ported blower, light upgrades, ported exhaust with hooker muffler, comp g GP wheels. Future holds rockers, trans work, tints
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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:33 pm 
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gonzo4191 wrote:
he got rid of his 93 i tihnk??
and a l27 is the code for your engine, its the series 1 N/A v6 3800


OK, but are there series one And series two L27's

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Black 2001 Bonneville SSEi. Rated 240 HP.

Issues: Exhaust, Windshield, AC leak, K$N Drop-In,
Black Betty.140K mi
ImageImage

Bonny. Red 1994 SE 186K mi.: Gone and I don't worry anymore


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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:44 pm 
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Year and Trim: 1993 SE
If you are getting another bonneville and you would like to stay with the 1992-1999 body style ,I would get an 1999 SSEI. It's fast :twisted: ,has obd II,AL7(seats),and more speed parts avalible. :twisted: good luck in your search . :beerchug:

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:44 pm 
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no.

series 1 is l27 (N/A) and l67 (SC)
series 2 is l36 (N/A) and l67 (SC)


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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:43 am 
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Location: Williamsburg, Va
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1993 Bonneville SSE
2001 Bonneville SSEi
spoiledred94 wrote:
The rockers sound like a good idea for the meantime. What would they do for my motor (mechanically and increase in HP)? I'll look at my FSM for the procedure if it's real possibility. Would my car handle the extra power? Porting the manifolds is a question. It was my understanding that they are pretty good stock. No real room for improvement. No better available headers either. Even if these ideas are only small improvements it would be worth doing. Improvement is good. Thanks for the tip 93 SSE. I have an extra throttle body lying around I bought here. Is there anything I can do with it?


The rockers would gain you something around 20hp I believe, and will work fine with stock components (i.e. pushrods, valve springs). On porting the L27 LIM, there is room for improvement there, there are a few threads on this as well. I'm not how much power you would get out of it, but it will definitely seem to respond quicker to the pedal. Now while the exhaust manifolds are good from the factory I'm sure there is some room for improvement there. Might be worth just smoothing out the openings, you would have to ask someone else about that one though. As far as the TB goes, I'm not sure if anyone has done it with an L27 or if it would be worth removing the post inside there. I know it's been done on a few L67 TBs.

While I do love my '01 SSEi, if my '93 SSE was on the road right now I would still have a hard time deciding which one to drive. I still love that car so I understand your attachment to your '94.

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'93 SSE "Guinevere" Mods: Intense FWI | 180º T-Stat | Flowmaster 80 | Magnaflow Cat | Projector Fogs | Clear Corners | ES Poly End Links
'01 SSEi "Chloe" Mods: Intense FWI | GenV | WBS Intercooled | 3.2 MPS | SSAC Headers | Northstar TB | DTM Tuned | TEP Trans | B&M Trans Cooler
Dual AeroForce | Solid Mounts | 255 Walbro Pump | Fuel Logs | GXP STB & Sway Bars | CSS Lowering Springs | Painted Calipers & Grille | Disabled DRL
Magnaflow Mufflers | Magnaflow Cat | GXP Seats & Trim | 35 % Tint | Cleared & Tinted Tails | repinS Retrofited Morimoto Mini H1 | 19" GT500 Wheels
Achievements: Guinevere - 244k mi | 16.27 @ 84.10mph | March '11 COTM :: Chloe - 208k mi | 13.85 @ 102mph | January '09 COTM


Last edited by WhiteArrow3800 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's a good car
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:52 am 
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You could if you want to keep your car drop in a L67 and tranny..

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