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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:51 pm 
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Location: San Diego, CA
Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Mon Apr 28, 2008

Bought a 102k mile 1998 4T65E-HD out of a Regal GS from local Craigslist.

Seller is a 50-ish high school auto shop teacher. Story is: Bought the car at auction (rear-ended) for the front clip for his son's (front-wrecked) car. Donated the engine to the shop class for tear-down, and let the kids take home whatever parts they wanted (yes, the M90 was gone :lol: ). Says he drove it home with temporary tail lights stuck to the trunk lid, and the only significant trans issue was that the TC lockup would drop in and out; suspects a valve body issue.

He'd been trying to sell it for 5 months now, gradually dropping the asking price from $250 to the $100 I got it for. Shows how few FWD GM enthusiasts there are 'round these parts :cry:

Kinda grimy when picked up:
Image

The -HD diffy parts were first to come out; the differential looks good and checks out as per planetary play spec in the FSM:
Image

Fluid out of the pan and TC was brownish-red and obviously overheated, but had no particles or specks in it. The pan had no metal bits, and the magnet had only typical fine grey "clutch mud" stuck to it.

Cracked open the filter with a hammer and chisel:
Image
Image
Image

Only some fine clutch mud, no metal particles. The third pic shows some black "flakes" stuck between the felts...I know what that is already, but I'd be getting ahead of myself :wink:

_________________
2004 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Bone Stock

1998 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Mods: Poly sway bushings/endlinks, Tru-Cool trans cooler, Thrasher shift kit (med), PLIM, front PEM, Bendix "Street HP" rotors / CT3 pads, DHP PowrTuner; Mods in progress: Lots of stuff, progressing nicely :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Tue Apr 29, 2008

OK, so I'll go through the book step-by-step, with my inspection notes and pics on the dismantle.

(I did not get a picture of everything, so if anyone wants me to go back and snap a photo of something, let me know)

Torque converter: JTFM 258mm TC. Looks OK on the outside and in the teeth, but the bearing has some nicks in it. Probably best used as a core for a reman.

Reverse Servo: OK.

Forward Servo: OK.

Pan: OK; cleaned up great. May investigate getting a drain plug welded into it. Two M6 bolts missing, but threaded holes in case all OK, and can get $2 replacement bolts from Intense. Pan Gasket in excellent shape after cleaning, and can be reused.

Oil filter: No alarms; see previous post(s).

Accumulator assembly and 2-1 Band Servo: OK. After I get new piston seals out of an Overhaul kit, I'll probably swap this unit in it's entirety into the current trans and swap in the current trans' unit with Thrasher shift kit already installed.

Control Valve Body Cover (Side Cover): OK. Very grimy, but cleaned up fine. Gasket in great shape after cleaning, and can be reused. Had a W-body specific mount bolted to it, will probably give away or sell mount.

Wiring Harness: Screwed that puppy up; all the little plastic retaining clips to the solenoids were very brittle, and as careful as I tried to be I broke every last one of them:
Image

This harness will find use as part of a solenoid test apparatus. I bought a replacement used 14-pin harness for $15 shipped from an EBAY seller I have bought good parts from before; it checks out OK.

Oil Pump: Removed but not yet disassembled for inspection:
Image

I bought a spare pump for $15 shipped off ClubGP, and will use whichever looks better inside.

Control Valve Body Assembly: Removed and prepared for inspection:
Image

Checkballs, case cover pin, separator plate, pressure switch, etc. bagged and tagged.

NOTE: The valve body can be a potential budget-buster, depending what I find inside…stay tuned.

Oil Pump Drive Shaft: Teeth at pump end OK, but teeth at TC end are badly worn:
Image

Shaft on right from this trans; shaft on left cost me $10 as part of a batch of parts I bought used off ClubGP. Both are actually not so good; will probably buy a $40 shipped new stock oil pump shaft from GMPD (p/n 24209284).

Vehicle Speed Sensor: OK.

Output Shaft / Differential / Extension Housing: OK; discussed in earlier post.

Manual Valve Link, Oil Dam, Input Speed Sensor: OK.

Case Cover Removal: Rounded off one of the bolts (note this pic not my trans; lifted from internet and Paint-ed):
Image

But got it out with some reverse drill bits:
Image
Image

Found replacement M8-1.25 50mm grade 10.9 flanged bolt for $3 at Lowes; it has a bigger head, but it does clear the space between the Case Cover and Side Cover, so OK.

Fourth clutches and thrust washers came out with the case cover:
Image

Two locating pins:
Image
Image

Manual valve OK. Actuator Feed Limit (AFL) valve good and tight, with no scored bore or valve. (This was a potential project killer, as the AFL valve fix from Sonnax requires special tools and machining and is muy expensivo: http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=3793&pl=3.)

Drove Left axle oil seal out from behind with hammer and screwdriver. Axle bearing looks good. Pump shaft sleeve looks good.

TC relief ball valve seat is a bit chewed up:
Image
Image

Sonnax makes a $5 fix for that: http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=3798&pl=3
This could definitely have been a contributor to the seller’s TC lockup dropout issue.

Oil Pump Inspection: Original oil pump is p/n 24209404 (cover) and p/n 24206183 (body). This is '97 to '98 style pump, based on my research.
Taken apart.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

The vane rotor with my cryptic Sharpie marks to make sure reassembly is right:
Image

Pump slide has some concentric grooves in it:
Image

Vanes have corresponding ridges:
Image

I don’t like the looks of this.

Spare pump I bought is p/n 24213197 (cover) and 24210098 (body). My research indicates this is the mid-98 to '02/'03 style pump update, before GM went to some kind of 3-piece pump.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

I note that the pump slide in the spare pump does not have any grooves, nor do the vanes have ridges. I also note the newer pump cover has a "bypass" groove cast into it, which I like.

I can interchange pump covers; however, pump slides/vanes/rotors are not interchangeable because they are factory matched to the depth of each pump body coming off the assembly line.

These pumps seem to be worn similarly otherwise. I'll likely go ahead and use the spare pump.

Valve Body Inspection:

Image
Image

There are 11 separate bores for solenoids and/or valves.

1. Line Boost Valve and Pressure Regulator Valve:

Image

The line boost valve and reverse boost valve ride inside the boost valve bushing:
Image

The inner bore of the aluminum bushing is clearly worn, and these valves are rattling around inside too freely. This is a common problem, and leads to slow / sloppy shifting. Sonnax makes a drop-in fix (about $45): http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=3794&pl=3

2. 1-2, 3-4 Shift Solenoid and 1-2 Shift Valve: Solenoid clicks when 12v applied; will probably replace anyway (about $20) to be safe. Shift valve and bore OK.

3. Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) Solenoid and Torque Signal Regulator Valve: This solenoid clicks, too; however, it is always recommended to replace this one (about $50) on a rebuild. This solenoid is year specific (97-02, or 03+). Regulator valve looks good and the bore is fine.

4. Line Pressure Relief Valve: All OK.

5. Torque Converter Control / Pulse Width Modulator (TCC/PWM) Solenoid and Torque Converter Control (TCC) Valve:

Image

Solenoid clicks, but again, always replace this one on a rebuild (about $40).

TCC valve is quite worn and loose in the bore (though the bore looks OK):
Image

This is a common problem also, and could be the cause of the TC lockup dropout issue. Sonnax TCC valve drop-in fix (about $25): http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=3796&pl=3

6. TCC Regulator Apply Valve:

Image

The valve and bore are OK; good thing, because the Sonnax fix for this require special tools and machining and would be a budget buster: http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=3795&pl=3

The end plug looks worn on one side, as if it was being "canted" somehow:
Image

The Sonnax TCC valve fix referenced above includes a new teflon sealing ring for this end plug. Also, I could order a whole new end plug (p/n 24208635) from GMPD for about $5.

7. 2-3 Shift Solenoid: Solenoid clicks when 12v applied; will probably replace anyway (about $20) to be safe.

8. 4-3 Manual Downshift Valve and 3-4 Shift Valve: All OK.

9. 3-2 Manual Downshift Valve and 2-3 Shift Valve: All OK.

10. 1-2 Accumulator Valve:

Image

The valve is slightly scored, but seems tight in the bore:
Image

If I can find a p/n for this valve, I'll consider replacement, but I think it's OK as-is.

11. 2-3 Accumulator Valve and 3-4 Accumulator Valve:

Image

Like the 1-2 accumulator, these both show some light scoring:
Image
Image

But both are tight in their bores. The bushing the 2-3 rides in looks fine, and is tight in its VB bore. Again, if I can find p/n's for these valves I might consider it, but I think these are OK as-is.

----------

Checking out the channels in the VB, I found only this minor chip:
Image

I'm not worried about that.

----------

I found three "mystery clips" like this one:
Image

That are not referenced in the manual. They are smaller than any of the valve or solenoid end / retaining clips.

One was found in this location on the torque signal regulator valve (blue arrow):
Image

One in this location (blue arrow) on the TCC control valve:
Image

And the third I think was in this location (black arrow) on the TCC regulator apply valve:
Image

I have discovered via TSB and from forum discussion that these "extra clips" were used to temporarily hold in valves during manual assembly (to keep the springs compressed while the end caps / retainers were installed further down the assembly line). Their locations do not affect the operation of the given valves.

Perhaps they were supposed to be hand-removed at the factory after the VB was assembled, but were not. Or were not removed because they don't affect operation.

In any case, they do not need to be reinstalled.

-----------

All in all, I didn't see anything in the valve body that I'd consider a project killer.

On to other things.

Case Cover Inspection:

Image

I found only one small nick in the fluid channels:
Image

Nothing to worry about.

The area near where the axle goes in had a gouge in it, looks to me from maybe a prybar or something used to remove the axle. I filled it with epoxy:
Image

At the same spot, where the side cover goes on, there is a chip in the cover:
Image

It's outside where the sealing ring is, so I'm not worried. I filed off the sharp edges of the chipped area.

3-4 accumulator looks OK.

So, overall the case cover checks out OK (once I take care of the TC relief valve fix).

More inspections:

Transmission Range Switch: This is the one that sits on top of the trans case, right where the shifter cable attaches. Took it through all the gear positions and it checked out according to the signal matrix in the FSM; OK.

Transmission Manifold Fluid Pressure Switch:

Image

This funky thing has 6 separate pressure switches. It bolts to the top of the valve body and monitors whether the fluid is actually in the channels the PCM thinks it's in :lol: The FSM has a signal matrix based on what combo of these pressure switches are pressed.

Three of these switches are "normally open." These functioned flawlessly.

The other three are "normally closed." I found these to respond (i.e., open/close) to press/release very slowly. So I pried off their sealing rings and membranes:
Image

I found there was trans fluid behind the membranes. I'm guessing some gunk (clutch mud?) got in between the contacts. Some contact cleaner:
Image

And replace the membranes and these switches are now as fast as the normally open switches. I read somewhere that the Overhaul kit comes with new sealing rings for these pressure switches...I hope so.

So, after cleaning, the manifold switch checks out versus the FSM matrix; OK.

POST Thu May 01, 2008

Getting back to the mechanics of the transmission...

Drive Link Stretch Check:

Image

The book says to replace the chains if the clearance between the chains and any the case (along the bottom) is less than 1/8" when the chains are pushed down taut with a fingertip. I measured a hair over 1/4" (and close visual inspection of chains saw no problems) , so I plan to reuse them.

Fourth Clutch Components Removal:

Drive Link Lube Scoop:

Image

This scoop is color-coded and gear specific based on the driven gear's diameter (33, 35 or 37 teeth). I'll be going from a 33 to a larger-diameter 35 tooth driven gear, so I'll just grind about 1/8" off the lip of this scoop to fit.

4th Clutches:

Image

While the frictions actually look pretty good, these steels show significant "leopard spotting" due to overheating. This is apparently pretty common on factory 4th clutches. I'm told Borg Warner newer-style "OEM quality" 4th clutches put many more of the radial fluid channels in the 4th clutches and help prevent this overheating. All these clutches and steels will come with the Master Kit.

Fourth Clutch Shaft:

Image

The shaft on the right is the 102k mile shaft out of this trans; on the left a hardened 2003+ replacement shaft I got for $30.
Once those teeth on the non-hardened pre-2003 shaft wear down completely, no more 4th gear. This is a must-replace on any pre-2003 4T65E.

Drive Sprocket, Driven Sprocket and Drive Link Removal:

The turbine shaft looks good, and with my anticipated power level I do not see the need for a high-dollar aftermarket upgrade. Sprockets look good, too; but I'm going to replace the 37 drive / 33 driven with 35/35 stockers (like from a GPGT or n/a H-Body) to wind up with 3.29's. I expect to spend $75 to $100 for these sprockets; and I don't see the need to spend big $$$ on a single-chain "race" setup here.

Speed Sensor Reluctor wheel:

Image

The pins are good and tight. Important thing to check, because if this comes loose off the drive sprocket, it can ruin chains, sprockets, and/or the case cover.

Here's the driven sprocket support assembly:
Image

Driven Sprocket Support / Fourth Clutch Piston Assembly, Second Clutch Assembly, Input and Third Clutch Assembly, and Input / Third Sprag were pretty tightly attached to each other and all came out together. I'll get more pics of these parts as I inspect them, but here's what it looks like after these are out:

Image

Reverse Band looks good and can be reused:

Image
Image

Reverse Reaction Drum also OK.


Last edited by agrazela on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:28 am
Posts: 1782
Location: San Diego, CA
Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Fri May 02, 2008

After Input and Reaction Carrier, Reaction Sun Gear, Manual 2-1 Band, 1-2 Support Drum and Forward Band removal:

Image
Image

I inspected the Parking Link:
Image

And differential Ring Gear:
Image

Inside the case. They are fine, and I'm not going to bother removing them.

The case 95% cleaned:
Image

Pressure Test Plug and Vent check out OK, as do Forward and Reverse Servos and the Drive Sprocket Bearing:
Image

TC Stator Mount looks good:
Image

Another look at the Differential components now that they are all cleaned up:
Image

This metal clad axle seal needs replacing, and that comes in the Overhaul kit:
Image

Here's the roll pin that holds in the spider gear pinion:
Image

If that roll pin falls out, then this pinion:
Image

Is free to sling out of the diff carrier and bust your extension housing.

Alternatively, sometimes the spider gears sieze to or wear down the pinion and the gears or pinion itself breaks.

None of these things is good, all are caused or accelerated by rough treatment, and this is why we are all warned not to do one-wheel burnouts :wink:

There are aftermarket limited slip differentials (LSD); but from what I've read the clutch-based ones do not have a good track record for longevity, and the true posi-lock GM Torsen diffy costs more than my car is worth.

There are also aftermarket beefed-up output shafts, half axles, etc., but I'm not expecting to need any of that.

-------------------

Input Sun Gear, Input and Reaction Carrier:

Image

Input Sun Gear checks out OK. Input planetaries are well within play spec as per FSM.

One of the planetaries on the Reaction Carrier has slightly more play than the others, but is still within FSM spec. I'm calling it OK:
Image

If you've ever considered an -HD diffy upgrade, you may have been warned to be careful about a lube dam that the output shaft goes through. It sits between the Input and Reaction Carrier:
Image

This old plastic part was so brittle it literally started to crumble in my hand:
Image

Luckily, I can get a replacement for about $2

------------

Reaction Sun Gear and 1-2 Support Drum:

Image

The Support Drum has a one-way roller bearing inside:
Image

Both parts checked out OK, and the one-way bearing does its job.

Manual 2-1 Band:

Image
Image

The 2-1 manual band is marginal for reuse. For $10 I'll just get a new one.

Forward Band:

Image
Image

The forward band is burnt and must be replaced (About $50)

--------------

Bought this for the TC metal-clad oil seal:

Image

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=91352

POST Sat May 03, 2008

More parts inspection.

Reverse Drum:

Image

Part is OK.

I picked up this tool to take apart the clutch assemblies:
Image

2nd and Input / 3rd Clutch Assemblies:

Image

2nd Clutches:

Image
Image

These steels have some severe burned spots, and the frictions are pretty worn down. More evidence that the original owner of this tranny liked to punch it. The Master kit will have Borg Warner clutches and new steels.

2nd Clutch Spring and Piston:

Image

The piston has a rubber seal bonded to the bottom and must be replaced; that will come with the Master kit.

Unfortunately, the 2nd clutch springs are very strong, and I bent the heck out of the spring assembly with the tool:
Image

And I wasn't careful with removing the retaining ring, and it curled back in somehow and scratched the crap out of the brass bushing:
Image

I have no means of replacing the bushing, and the spring assembly is fubared. Luckily, the same EBAY guy I bought the harness from had a replacement 2nd clutch assembly for me for $30 shipped:

Image

On the replacement assembly I discovered I can pop the retaining ring off the spring without first compressing the it with the tool, which not only saved the spring but prevented the ring curling and scratching anything. I also discovered I can invert the the old 2nd clutch piston and use it to distribute the force of the tool to depress the new spring assembly without bending it, and have room to push the retaining ring back into place. Nice save :wink:

Input / 3rd Clutch Assembly:

Image

3rd Clutches:

The 3rd clutches are different, in that they are steels on one side and frictions on the other (rather than separate steels / frictions).

These 3rd clutches are badly coned:
Image

And even have some "chips" missing from the frictions:
Image

Although some coning from heat is to be expected in the 3rd's, this kinda proves the original owner was a leadfoot. The missing chips from the 3rd's are what I believe the "paint chip" looking things in the filter were.

The Master kit will have new Borg Warner 3rd clutches.

Input Clutches:

Image

The steels have a few burnt spots, but overall these actually look pretty good. The Master kit will have new BW clutches and new steels.

3rd Clutch Spring and Piston:

Image

This spring assembly was considerably less strong than the 2nd spring, and was a piece of cake. Like the 2nd piston, this one has a bonded seal and must be replaced (comes with the Master kit).

Input Clutch Housing, Spring and Piston:

Image

This spring was weak and easy, too.

The input piston is rather worn inside, where the input piston inner lip seal rides:
Image

And this (along with a crappily-designed OEM inner lip seal) is what leads to the infamous "bang start" in these transmissions:
http://www.tripleedgeperformance.com/4T ... n_Info.php

The TransTec brand Overhaul kits include a re-designed "long-lip" inner seal (along with some other fixes) designed to fix this:
http://www.transtec.com/tech_insert/IS-4T65E-5.pdf

I also got a new input piston off EBAY for $10, and it is nice and smooth inside:
Image
Image

Input / 3rd Sprag:

Image

This part checks out functionally in that the gears counter-rotate one direction and lock in the other. According to the book, the retaining ring on the top is not reuseable:

Image

And I don't know if the Master kit comes with this retainer. I ordered one from a local dealership for $6 just in case; when that comes in I'll be able to pop this open to inspect its innards.

-----------------

Driven Sprocket Support, 4th Clutch Spring and Piston:

Image

This spring was really tame. The 4th piston has some scoring inside:
Image

There are no particular warnings about this in the book, nor have I read about this as a problem; but I don't like the looks of it and must find a p/n for a replacement.

The thrust washer behind the driven sprocket assembly:
Image

Looks as if it had a teflon coating of some kind that has mostly worn away. I will be getting a thrust washer kit (about $15) that should replace this and many other thrust washers.

--------------------

Another look at the Drive and Driven Sprockets:

Image

The 37 / 33 originals at top, the 35 / 35 set I picked up at bottom.

Even though I said I was planning to reuse the Drive Link:

Image

I'm having second thoughts about putting extra power to a 102k mile chain, and will likely order new ones for about $70.

Turbine Shaft looks fine and will be reused:

Image

A look at the 1-2, 2-3 and Manual 2-1 Accumulator parts:

Image

Everything in order there. For those considering a shift kit, that is basically some shims and some stronger replacement springs for the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator pistons.

---------------

All the brass bushings (except the one I messed up and subsequently replaced) look great. All the roller bearings, roller thrust bearings, and selective washers are fine.

I've now inspected everything I can (at least until the sprag retaining ring arrives). I've gone ahead and given this rebuild the green light, and ordered the Master kit (about $175); when that comes I can start reassembling stuff.

For now, everything bagged, tagged, and boxed:
Image
Image


Last edited by agrazela on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:54 pm 
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Location: San Diego, CA
Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Mon May 05, 2008

Got the TC oil seal out with the Harbor Freight tool:
Image

Master Kit came in:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Time to start putting some of this back together.

Second Clutch Assemble:

Parts laid out:
Image

New clutch frictions soak in ATF for 30 minutes:
Image

Moisten new 2nd piston lip with ATF:
Image

Piston was a bear to push into place...much tighter than the old one. Here the spring and clip are in place and ready for the tool:
Image

Invert the old piston and use as a "washer" to avoid ruining this spring:
Image
Image

Still leaves enough gap to push the snap ring into the groove:
Image

Done:
Image

Soaked clutches installed:
Image

New 2nd clutch pack all done:
Image

Driven Sprocket Support Components Assemble:

Image

After looking at it more closely, the scoring inside the 4th piston (see earlier post) was not in the location of the inner lip seal, but rather only where it travels at the top edge of the driven support. So I decided to reuse the 4th clutch piston. New outer lip seal, moistened with ATF:
Image

Installing an ATF-soaked new inner seal using a specially homemade tool (aka, very small flatblade that I ground all sharp edges off of):
Image

It is crucial to get these lip seals seated properly, so that they sit in the groove with the lip sticking out all the way around. It's also crucial not to nick or cut the seals; in some cases, I temporarily wrapped shafts in electrical tape while sliding on the seals to avoid running seals over grooves or sharp edges...this was in lieu of buying up all kinds of specialty Kent Moore J-tool seal protectors and slides. Also, you have to make sure that inner lips seat inside pistons properly and do not "roll up" as you reinstall the pistons...another use for the rounded-off flatblade.

4th piston, spring and snap ring done:
Image

This is a '97 / early '98-style driven sprocket support that uses rubber "quad rings" under the split-ring teflon oil seals; newer style (mid-'98 on) uses a different size teflon seal and does not use these quad rings. The Transtec kit comes with both types of teflon seal, and includes new Viton quad rings:
Image

Input Clutch and Third Clutch Assemble:

Image

There are two inner lip seals and an o-ring in this one, and they are tricky to get to:
Image

I hope this shows what I meant earlier by the new Transtec lip seals being "long-lipped" compared to the OEM's:
Image

More tricky business installing these seals; definitely the most hair-raising part of this assembly:
Image

The threaded rod on my cheapo clutch spring compressor tool is not long enough to go all the way through the input hub assembly, so I had to improvise:
Image

Inner seals, pistons, springs, and snap rings reinstalled:
Image

Pre-soaked 3rd clutches all in place:
Image

Pre-soaked input clutches all in place:
Image

----------------

All the reassembly in this post took me four hours, which is about 36 hours less than I thought it would take me. I will credit that to my awesome cardboard box and ziploc bag organizational system. :lol:

Now I have to take these assemblies to the lab and function-test the reinstalled piston and lip seals with compressed air to make sure all are properly installed. If they pass, then the most screw-uppable part of reassembly (IMO) is done, and I can order up all the Sonnax fixes and solenoids for the valve body.

I also have to come up with some clever way to install and size the three replacement teflon sealing rings on the input shaft hub:
Image

There are j-tools for this, but I'll come up with something.

----------------------------

Managed to air-test the clutches, and they all passed :D

I rigged this air nozzle with a cut-up plastic lab dropper and some electrical tape, in order to tap the test holes in the clutch assemblies:
Image

Here's a video of the 3rd clutch engaging:
Image


Fri May 09, 2008

Differential End Play Measurement

This is a variation on the manual method, using stuff I found in the garage and my new Harbor Freight digital caliper (claimed accurate to +/- 0.001").

First assemble the differential and install the extension housing:
Image
Image

Then I rested this thick, flat metal plate thing with a hole in the middle over the center of the seal:
Image

Then extend the depth finder on the caliper and zero out the distance between the top of the plate and the pinion:
Image

Hold the body of the caliper firmly while prying up the diff through all its travel with a big screwdriver through the VSS hole:
Image
Image

Full travel measured 0.016":
Image

Spec for play is 0.005" to 0.025", so no need to swap in a different thickness selective washer. Test OK.


Last edited by agrazela on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:28 am
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Location: San Diego, CA
Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Tue May 13, 2008

Teflon Sealing Rings
(Input / 3rd Clutch Hub and Input Shaft)

I used a long, smooth, slow taper glass funnel (labware) to stretch the rings. That seemed to work OK for getting them onto the shaft:
Image

I got these nylon clamps to resize the rings:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

That did not work out so well...

When assembled to the driven sprocket support / 2nd clutch drum assemblies, they are not forming a positive seal (to air) for input and third clutch apply, even when the fluid channels in the support are filled with ATF.

I believe these clamps are making a depression or "divot" (red arrow) and a "hump" (green arrow) in the rings:
Image

I tried letting them sit a few days; then sit again overnight bathed in ATF; but they are just not reforming properly to make a seal.

I thought about getting new sealing rings (or a kit) and trying again, maybe with strips of neoprene between the clamp and the ring; but these rings are not exactly cheap enough for such experimentation, and the proper j-tools are extremely uncheap. So I'm likely going to send the hub and the shaft in to Dave at tripleedgeperformance.com to install and size all 6 new rings for me.

Thu May 15, 2008

So the Trannyman's going to install all six new seals on the hub and shaft and size them for $20. Add <$10 shipping for each way (USPS Priority flat rate box), and this little episode with the Teflon seals will cost me <$40. Another nice save 8)

(Dealership retail for just the rings alone would have been over $50, and online not much less)

Anyway, to continue...

Input 3rd Sprag:

Got the new sprag retaining ring (p/n 8682449):
Image

Peeling off the old one:
Image

Parts all laid out:
Image

All the races and bearings pass inspection OK. A little trick putting it back together; twist the one-way bearings into place, as their "teeth" want to wind up "canted" like this:
Image

New retainer installed; passes the one-way roller test. DONE:
Image

----------------------

Case Cover Reassembly:

Drove the TCC relief valve out with a torx-tip screwdriver (because I did not have a 3/16" straight punch):
Image

Here's the OEM parts:
Image

Got the Sonnax TCC relief valve fix (p/n 84757-01K):
Image

This dingus reduces the amount of pressure required to open the TCC relief valve, which is supposed to extend the life of the TCC apply piston in the valve body and helps reduce overheating of the TC.
For $5, it's worth a shot :lol:

Instructions say the OEM TCC relief valve spring wants to be no more than 1.230" long; mine was a bit long:
Image

So I hit both ends with a flat file:
Image

The new valve style reduced cracking pressure because [valve plus spring] is shorter than [OEM ball plus spring]:
Image
Image

Drove the seat back in with a 13mm socket, followed by the other end of the extension:
Image
Image

Until level with back of case cover:
Image

Then seat the valve by punching from behind:
Image

Now I have a valve instead of a ball:
Image

More case cover stuff:

3-4 accumulator parts with new seals installed:
Image

Accumulator re-installed:
Image

Another look at the Actuator Feed Limit (AFL) valve; checks out OK and was reinstalled:
Image

Also the manual valve (actuated by the gear selector mechanical assembly in the case):
Image

Case cover is ready for installation into the case, when I get to that point.


Last edited by agrazela on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:56 pm 
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98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Fri May 16, 2008

Moving on to

Valve Body Reassembly:

Removed the separator plate gaskets (wetting them thoroughly with ATF helped them come off relatively easily), then sprayed well with brake cleaner and hung to dry:
Image
Image

There is an FSM test where you place the checkballs (10 in total) onto their little chamfered holes in the separator plate and see if light shines through from the bottom; all passed OK; will reuse with gaskets supplied in Master kit. Had the test failed, GM now replaces the gasket / plate / gasket with a plate with gaskets pre-bonded to both sides...undoubtedly to ease assembly. For 97-03 the p/n is 24217552; for 04+ is 24224544.

Sonnax boost valve and sleeve fix p/n 84754-30K:
Image

Next to original boost valve and sleeve:
Image

The Sonnax part's valves are much tighter in the new sleeve than the worn old parts. I think this will have been worth doing.

New Borg Warner 97-02 specific PCS solenoid, p/n 50123 (I have read that this solenoid is less prone to failure than the OEM Delphi):
Image

PCS solenoid installed OK.

Sonnax TCC relief valve fix p/n 84754-43K:
Image

Next to the original worn part:
Image

This valve has a scarf-cut teflon seal (and an extra in case you mess up) that requires sizing. The seal is easy to install, but the sizing instructions that came with it were hard to understand, so I improvised with a layer of paper followed by 5 or 6 tight wraps with electrical tape, and let sit for 30 minutes:
Image

This allowed me to install into the bore with no trouble using some tranny goo for lube:
Image

After install, I held the valve with a screwdriver to compress the spring such that the seal was in place in it's bore (now I see what the temporary clips were for :) ):
Image

After 10 minutes, the teflon seal was nice and tight, and I could install the new GM TCC / PWM solenoid p/n 24227747 (not year specific):
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:57 pm 
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98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Wed May 21, 2008

Parts from GMPD:

2 New Shift solenoids, about $15 each (p/n 24219819; not year-specific):
Image

New VB TCC apply valve end plug, about $5 (p/n 24208635):
Image

After these are installed, Valve Body assembly is ready for reinstall.

-------------------------

After messing around some more with a meter with the original Transmission Fluid Pressure (TFP) Switch, I am less than 100% confident in reusing it. The normally closed switches (of which the TC switch is one) are not responding as quickly as I'd like, even after more cleaning with contact cleaner. Maybe they are just too corroded.

Anyway, I got a new one from GMPD, about $40 (p/n 24223197; 97-02 year specific, if memory serves):

Image

All its switches open/close (using the meter) instantly, so I am happy with that expenditure.

_________________
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1998 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Mods: Poly sway bushings/endlinks, Tru-Cool trans cooler, Thrasher shift kit (med), PLIM, front PEM, Bendix "Street HP" rotors / CT3 pads, DHP PowrTuner; Mods in progress: Lots of stuff, progressing nicely :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:58 pm 
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Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Fri May 23, 2008

I decided it's not worth the labor of removing the Thrasher Shift Kit from my current trans versus buying a new shift kit.

Got a TransGo SK-4T65E kit for about $50 shipped:
Image
Image

Here are the springs and shims for the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator (which I since installed):
Image

Plus the piston seals and new accumulator spacer plate from the TransTec Master kit:
Image

But it also came with firmer springs for the 3-4 accumulator in the case cover (which I went back and installed), which I have not seen in any other shift kit:
Image

The kit also came with other goodies...

TransGo's version of a fix for the OEM short-lipped inner seal for the third clutch piston, a chamfered seal and a spring for the groove (not needed for me since the TransTec kit had a long-lipped seal):
Image

A new spring and boost valve (not needed for me since I got the Sonnax complete boost valve fix):
Image

A long-lipped seal for the reverse servo (but again TransTec kit already has this):
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Tue May 27, 2008

Installing the Torque Converter Oil Seal the old fashioned way, with a hammer and a gigantic bolt:
Image

The Thermo Element looks fine to me according to the manual; no need to screw with it beyond cleaning it off with some brake cleaner:
Image

Another use for the Harbor Freight seal puller, yanking out the old Filter Seal:
Image

Pounding the new filter seal in with a socket:
Image

New 2-1 Manual Servo Seal:
Image

Replace the dipstick tube seal:
Image

New one, shows why this is sometimes called a "top hat" seal:
Image

1-2 and 2-3 Accumulator, 2-1 Manual Servo, and tubing assembly reinstalled:
Image

Another Sonnax goodie; the differential lube tube retainer (p/n 84532-01K, about $2)
Image

Installed (using blue threadlocker on the screw):
Image

The device is supposed to help keep the diffy lube tube from blowing out of the accumulator housing. Even if it falls off, the filter will catch it.

New Wix Oil Filter (p/n 58837, about $15) installed, along with the pan gasket in place:
Image

Oil Pan and magnet cleaned up
Image

Needed a few new M6 pan bolts (p/n 1647346):
Image

(Sorry, didn't get a shot of the pan installed and the bolts torqued)

Forward Servo with new seals:
Image

Installed and torqued down:
Image

Reverse Servo with new seals:
Image

Installed and held in place with big snap ring:
Image

Differential assembly installed, using lots of tranny goo to hold all the thrust bearings and washers in place:
Image

(Sorry, didn't get a shot of the Case Extension Housing (and new seal) installed and held on with two bolts, only hand-tight for now. One word of warning; if the diffy is not installed right (typically due to one of the bushings or bearings not seated right), the extension housing will not fully seat into the case, and torquing down it's retaining bolts under that circumstance will crack the housing.)

New Forward Band installed (making sure to engage the anchor pin and the servo shaft):
Image

Then the 1-2 Support Drum (which is what the Forward Band grips):
Image

Then the new 2-1 Manual Band (again making sure the anchor pin and servo are engaged):
Image

Then the Reaction Sun Gear and Drum (which fits into the 1-2 Support Drum and makes a 1-way roller; also, this is the part the 2-1 Manual Band grips):
Image

Then the Reaction Carrier (with new plastic lube dam "glued" in place in the center with tranny goo):
Image

The Input Carrier:
Image

---------------------

Got the Input/3rd Clutch Hub and the Input Shaft (with all new teflon seals installed and sized) back in the mail today (about a week from sending them out :D ):
Image
Image

Assembled the Driven Sprocket Support to the 2nd Clutch Drum to the Input/3rd Clutch Hub (spread some goo on the seals first for lube and sealing).
Image

Marked all the apply holes:
Image

Filled the apply channels with ATF using a dropper, air-tested once again (Note: I had to invert the entire assembly to test input and 3rd due to the orientation of the drain-back check ball valves), and all clutches applied no problem 8)

My biggest rebuild issue yet (these *dang* seals) is now solved.


Last edited by agrazela on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Wed May 28, 2008

Input/3rd Sprag installed into the clutches in the input/3rd clutch hub:
Image

The book says to line up all the little clutch teeth with a small screwdriver and simply slide the sprag in. Yeah, right!

I just gooped it up with goo (to make it stay in place during installation), then rotated and "wiggled" it alot while the clutches lined up one-by-one and the sprag slowly fell into place. You know it's all the way in when the sprag rests on the thrust bearing and is more or less flush with the top clutch plate. This took about an hour.

Reverse Reaction Drum installed; the far end has large "teeth" that mesh with "teeth" on the OD of the Input Carrier:
Image

Reused Reverse Band installed, again making sure to engage the anchor pin and the servo:
Image

Input Sun Gear Shaft well-gooped and installed into the end of the sprag:
Image

The spiral-cut gears on the Input Sun Gear Shaft mesh with the planets in the Input Carrier (easier said than done) when the Input/3rd assembly is installed:
Image

Using the ASTM Test Method 2 for measuring the play in the Input Hub / Driven Sprocket Support; I then temporarily installed the Driven Sprocket Support:
Image

Took out all the play in the differential:
Image

And measured the "ledge" between the face of the Driven Sprocket Support and the edge of the casing:
Image

Specification is 0.006" to 0.012"; I measured 0.008", OK!
Image

Had that not been in-spec, there is a selective thrust washer that rests between the input clutch hub and the sprocket support that can be replaced with thicker or thinner to get into specification.

A new set of thrust washers:
Image
Image

For now I'm using this coated metal one (old left, new right) that goes between the Driven Sprocket Support and the 2nd Clutch Drum:
Image

All these other replacement thrust washers will get used in the case cover and sprockets reassembly.

Sorry I did not get a pic of the the 2nd Clutch Drum I installed next; it had to be rotated (like the sprag) to get it's clutch plates to line up one-by one and drop the drum into place; though this one only took a minute. You know it's fully seated because teeth on the near end of the Reverse Reaction Drum engage teeth inside the 2nd Drum, and the darkened pattern on the outside of the drum where the Reverse Band gripped lines up with the band.

Here then is the Driven Sprocket Support installed:
Image

Getting that baby into place was tough at this stage, because it's teflon seals have to slip inside the 2nd Drum, while the Input / 3rd's teflon seals have to slip inside the Sprocket Support. Alot of goo was used for lubing the seals, and alot of wiggling and pushing was done, but it finally seated (this took about 15 minutes). Wear marks on the outside of the Support versus some case protrusions told me exactly how to rotate the Support into it's original orientation.

With a flashlight I could look down inside the "leg" of the trans (outside all the clutch assemblies) and see that all the bands were still where they should be, and that the reverse reaction drum was still properly engaged.

I took the Driven Sprocket and temporarily installed it onto the end of the input clutch hub and was able to hand-rotate all the assemblies; everything moved freely (though with effort) with no wierd noises or hangups.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:00 pm 
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Location: San Diego, CA
Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Thu May 29, 2008

35-tooth Drive Sprocket (from a n/a GPGT trans) affixed to Turbine Shaft with snap ring:
Image

It was very delicate getting that snap ring back on over the green teflon rings without gouging the rings.

Reluctor and new thrust washer glued on with Assembly Goo:
Image
Image

I considered punching the riveted pins out of the reluctor wheel, tapping the holes in the Driven Sprocket (M6-1.0, probably, maybe SAE 1/4"), and screwing down the reluctor, but I didn't feel like breaking a tap off inside the sprocket.

Also, new thrust washer glued to back of Driven Sprocket:
Image

A word about the new Drive Link chains (which I scored off an EBAY auction for $17 shipped 8) ):
Image

The new chains are labeled "HV-065 / HV-093" (rather than just "HV-065" as listed in the catalog for this 4T65E TranStar 51973E part number). Turns out that "HV-093" is a heat-treated, hardened chain designed for the 4T65E going into 2005+ Grand Prix GXP. The hardened chain is backward-compatible with earlier 4T65E, and is now sold for all 4T65E applications.

The hardened chains are verified by the presence of two blue "master" links, versus one blue link in the old chains.
New chains (in bag), versus old chains:
Image
Image

That's pretty sweet :wink:

Anyway, the chains on the sprockets:
Image

Then installed into the trans:
Image

Getting the turbine shaft into place took some Goo for lube and alot of wriggling and pushing.

The new chains clear the case by 0.342" (versus about 1/4" with the old chains, which apparently were slightly stretched):
Image
Image

New 4th Clutches and Steels:
Image

Note the copious fluid channels in these Borg Warner fibers; should reduce clutch burning in OD.

Fibers soaked in ATF for 30 minutes:
Image

New hardened 4th Clutch Hub (p/n 24207289, about $45):
Image

Plastic Lube Scoop with 1/8" filed off the lip with a flat file (to clear the larger diameter 35-tooth Driven Sprocket from a n/a GPGT trans):
Image

4th Clutch Hub (must seat fully into Input Sun Gear) and Lube Scoop installed:
Image

The 4th Clutch Apply Plate, new fibers and steels in place:
Image

Case Cover (aka channel plate) with new thrust washers goo'ed to the back and Manual Valve in place:
Image

Case Cover Gaskets lying in place, located by the two locating pins:
Image

(Manual says these gaskets can be held in place with some assembly goo if need be, but I did not want to risk forming leaky spots)

Case Cover installed, and all bolts (including the one replacement for the bolt I rounded) torqued down:
Image

It was difficult getting the Case Cover's pump shaft sleeve over the teflon seals on the Turbine Shaft without dislodging the gaskets, but I did it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:01 pm 
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98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Sat May 31, 2008

Park Link, Manual Valve Link, Manual Shift Detent and Oil Dam assembled:
Image

Input Speed Sensor installed:
Image

New Oil Pump Shaft:
Image

New scarf-cut teflon seal installed and gooped:
Image

Then installed into Case Cover:
Image

The other end that goes into the Torque Converter:
Image

The Case Cover with four 1/4" Checkballs gooped into place:
Image

A closeup on one of them:
Image

Four 1/4" and two larger 5/16" (?) checkballs gooped into the backside of the Valve Body:
Image

Closeup on a larger checkball:
Image

Valve Body Separator Plate, Gaskets, and Screens and plastic Retaining Bolts (these hold the separator/gaskets to the Valve Body):
Image

The gasket that goes against the Valve Body has a "V" punched into it, while the one that goes against the Case Cover has a "C":
Image
Image

The trans manual was surprisingly vague about which holes the screens and retainers go into, but the FSM was more detailed on that:
Image

The Valve Body to Case Cover locating pin:
Image

The Valve Body (with gaskets attached) laid onto the Case Cover, located via the pin and the pump shaft sleeve:
Image

It's important to be sure none of the checkballs gets dislodged when the VB is inverted and laid onto the Case Cover.

New Transmission Fluid Pressure (TFP) Switch, the newer replacement Oil Pump installed, all switch, pump and Valve Body bolts installed and torqued, newer replacement Internal Harness installed, and the Side Cover gasket laid into place:
Image

Side Cover square-cut seal gooped into place:
Image

Side Cover installed and all bolts torqued:
Image

It's important to be sure the harness isn't dislodged or pinched when the Side Cover is laid in place, and that the Side Cover gasket stays in place.

Vehicle Speed Sensor with new o-ring seal:
Image

And installed into Extension Housing:
Image

Gooped up the c-ring on the differential end (the end with the shorter grooved section) of the Output Shaft:
Image

Not only will this lube when I pound the shaft into the diffy, it will also hold the ring "centered" so it won't hang up on that plastic lube dam :wink:

The Output Shaft slid through the transaxle and seated into the differential (with a hammer):
Image

The PNP Switch and Gear Selector armature installed:
Image

The Torque Converter O-ring Seal installed onto the Turbine Shaft:
Image

A cheap mod: an Intense False Knock Elimination Kit (just a piece of DynaMat Xtreme), installed using a wooden wallpaper roller and a plastic screen installation tool from Home Depot:
Image

Lastly, I cleaned out all the threaded holes on the outside of the case with metric taps.

------------

That concludes the 4T65E rebuild. All she needs now is a remanufactured Torque Converter; mounts, fill tube, brackets, etc. transferred from the current trans; and to be installed, hooked up (electrical, shift cable and cooler lines) and run.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:01 pm 
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Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Mon Jun 02, 2008

I probably paid a little more than I could have for some things, and definitely found bargains on others. I was hoping to get this far for around $800 in parts, but I went slightly over.

Parts I bought (I think I listed everything I used), in descending cost order:

Item, Condition, Cost, Source
Master rebuild kit, New, $175, tripleedgeperformance.com
Transmission, Used , $100, Craigslist
EPC solenoid, New, $50, tripleedgeperformance.com
35/35 sprockets, Used, $50, ClubGP
Forward band, New, $50, tripleedgeperformance.com
TransGo shift kit, New, $50, EBAY
Sonnax boost valve, New, $45, transmissionpartsusa.com
4th Clutch hub, New, $45, GMpartsdirect.com
Pump shaft, New, $40, GMpartsdirect.com
TFP switch, New, $40, GMpartsdirect.com
Teflon seals installed, New, $40, tripleedgeperformance.com
2 Shift solenoids, New, $30, GMpartsdirect.com
2nd clutch drum, Used, $30, EBAY
Sonnax TCC valve, New, $25, transmissionpartsusa.com
TCC solenoid, New, $20, transmissionpartsusa.com
Drive links, NOS, $17, EBAY
Harness, Used, $15, EBAY
Pump, Used, $15, ClubGP
Thrust washer kit, New, $15, transmissionpartsusa.com
WIX oil filter, New, $15, local auto parts store
Intense false knock kit, New, $15, Intense-racing.com
2-1 Manual band, New, $10, transmissionpartsusa.com
Input piston, NOS, $10, EBAY
2 M6 pan bolts, New, $8, Intense-racing.com
Sprag retainer ring, New, $6, local GM dealer
Sonnax TC relief valve, New, $5, tripleedgeperformance.com
TCC apply valve end plug, New, $5, GMpartsdirect.com
Case cover bolt, New, $3, local hardware store
Lube dam , New, $2, transmissionpartsusa.com
Sonnax lube tune retainer, New, $2, transmichigan.com

Total thus far: $933

Still cheaper by far than any reputable shop rebuild (at least around here), and invaluable for the experience. Although, if you discount my screw-ups on the harness, teflon rings and the 2nd clutch hub--and the cost of buying the trans itself--I'm actually under-budget :lol:

Leave off the things that could be called changes, modifications or "upgrades" (e.g., different gear ratio with sprockets, false knock kit, higher cost for choosing BW over Delphi EPC solenoid, slightly higher cost for choosing BW over Raybestos frictions, maybe the shift kit) rather than purely "cheapest possible necessary OEM-quality stock repairs" and you can knock about $100 to $150 off my total.

On the other hand, I probably saved about $120 to $150 on some really good EBAY and forum parts deals. :twisted:

Also bear in mind that I will have my original, working (if slipping and occasionally "bang starting") trans around as a backup if this rebuild somehow fails me :oops:

------------------------

Since this rebuilt 4T65E-HD is going into a (soon to be topswapped) 1998 LeSabre, I already have a 1998 SSEi passenger's axle I bought from Ed Morad for $80 shipped some time ago.

------------------------

Before install, I will also be buying:
Torque converter, Remanufactured; I expect to spend about $175 to $200 after all shipping and returning the core TC from the rebuild.

(Definitely going stock with woven carbon fiber lockup clutch on this, because aftermarket TC's often use Kevlar lockup clutches that are not right for a street application with the type of pulse-width modulated solenoid used in the 4T65E.)

I have a Reman TC source in mind already; if anyone can vouch for a reputable source that would be cheaper, let me know.

P.S., this is not something I'm going to buy off EBAY :wink:

------------------------

Tools, etc. bought during rebuild that I did not already have:
Clutch compressor, $35, EBAY
Digital caliper, $15, Harbor freight
Nylon resize rings (fail), $8, EBAY
Seal puller, $5, Harbor freight
Assembly goo, $5, transmissionpartsusa.com

-------------------------------

Other fun facts:

I weighed the completed trans, dry and minus TC, at 160 lbs on a bathroom scale

If you were going to put the trans in a box, the box would be minimum 25" L x 23" W x 18" H

_________________
2004 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Bone Stock

1998 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Mods: Poly sway bushings/endlinks, Tru-Cool trans cooler, Thrasher shift kit (med), PLIM, front PEM, Bendix "Street HP" rotors / CT3 pads, DHP PowrTuner; Mods in progress: Lots of stuff, progressing nicely :)


Last edited by agrazela on Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:53 pm 
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Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
Tue Jun 3, 2008

Resources:

Rebuild manual, etc. can be downloaded here:
http://mscooling.dynup.net/Pictures/GP/rebuild/Docs/

Catalog with most part numbers can be downloaded here:
http://www.transtarindustries.com/catView.asp?ID=444

Discussion of common 4T65E problems:
http://www.tripleedgeperformance.com/4T ... n_Info.php

ASTG Manual "method 2" for measuring Input Clutch Hub clearance:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/Gr ... 0_0951.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/Gr ... 0_0952.jpg

_________________
2004 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Bone Stock

1998 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Mods: Poly sway bushings/endlinks, Tru-Cool trans cooler, Thrasher shift kit (med), PLIM, front PEM, Bendix "Street HP" rotors / CT3 pads, DHP PowrTuner; Mods in progress: Lots of stuff, progressing nicely :)


Last edited by agrazela on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:56 pm 
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which of those chains did I sell you?

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2005 Town & Country Limited | Butane Blue Metallic | 200k | Family Hauler
2002 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Sport | Black| 150k | Official Bonneville Hauler


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:57 pm 
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98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
harofreak00 wrote:
which of those chains did I sell you?


PM sent

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2004 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Bone Stock

1998 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Mods: Poly sway bushings/endlinks, Tru-Cool trans cooler, Thrasher shift kit (med), PLIM, front PEM, Bendix "Street HP" rotors / CT3 pads, DHP PowrTuner; Mods in progress: Lots of stuff, progressing nicely :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:17 pm 
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Location: Alton, IL
Year and Trim: 2000 SLE - Black
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Black 2000 SLE


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 2
Year and Trim: 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi
Man I have to tell you that is an awesome post you have for the rebuild of the 4T65E. It actually inspired me to do my own. The only thing that was wrong with mine is I lost 4th gear and decided to go on and rebuild it. Looked real good inside but I am replacing everything from seals to solenoids to steels. I've got a question for you concerning the pump. I had butterfingers and my vanes all fell out. Inspection of the pump shows no grooves or abnormal wear, everything is nice and smooth. Would using the same pump and having the vanes not in the original location be a problem?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:32 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:28 am
Posts: 1782
Location: San Diego, CA
Year and Trim: 04 Lesabre, Stock
98 Lesabre, Top Swap & stuff
I expect all the vanes would have worn equally and evenly. Just test to make sure they each slide in and out of whichever groove you put them into without hanging up and without play.

I think the link to the rebuild manual is broken; PM me an email add'y if you need a copy.

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2004 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
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1998 Buick Lesabre Limited, Gran Touring
Mods: Poly sway bushings/endlinks, Tru-Cool trans cooler, Thrasher shift kit (med), PLIM, front PEM, Bendix "Street HP" rotors / CT3 pads, DHP PowrTuner; Mods in progress: Lots of stuff, progressing nicely :)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 2
Year and Trim: 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi
Well I finished my 4T65E rebuild of my Pontiac and it shifts fine. It's nice to have my 4th gear back also. This is what I replaced in mine.
1st & 2nd shift solenoid
new thrust washer kit
new oil pump shaft
new sungear
new front bands
replaced all seals
new steels
new clutches
new torque converter
new chain
new tranny oil filter
new 4th clutch hub shaft
Transgo shift kit
new TCC Solenoid
new pressure manifold switch
new rear band
new reverse band
new check balls
new pressure control solenoid (EPC)
In all the parts ran about $600 thanks to new parts from Ebay. I was able to get the pressure manifold switch for $23.00 (new) when I have seen the prices double and triple that.
Thanks for the advice and for putting up such an awesome post.


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