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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:41 am 
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Ok, What else can cause a crank & no start / no spark?

I swapped out the ICM with a known good one off of my parts car, no luck.
Fuses good.

Crank sensor is next...

Is there anything else that can cause no spark?

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 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:46 am 
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I would have to go with crank sensor myself, unless for some real odd reason the PCM died, and I highly doubt that.

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 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:50 am 
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Crank sensor is the #1 suspect. The ignition switch could cause it, but would be unusual.

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 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:47 am 
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Ok, we got a new crank sensor and still no start... I am going to try the PCM from my parts car and see what that does.

Looks like the new sensor will be getting cleaned up and brought back to the store.

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1982 Cutlass Supreme - Mild built 355 SBC 13.77 @ 100 MPH - still has more to go! idle vid

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 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Well, we tried everything suggested in the FSM and then we decided to try and swap out the ICM with Wes' car. We put the ICM in and it fired right up :banana:

Bad news though, there was a tick. Sounded like a lifter tick, and it went away after about five minutes, but It isn't good. This car has NEVER had not one single noise from the engine no matter how long it sat....

SO, I need an ICM now..

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2002 Bonneville SE The new kid, $500 worth of SE goodness - pics here
1996 Silverado Z71 - 350 Vortec, 4x4, ext cab short box. - Pic thread
1982 Cutlass Supreme - Mild built 355 SBC 13.77 @ 100 MPH - still has more to go! idle vid

MattStrike wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:26 pm 
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If you tried to start it enough times you may have kicked the oil out of the lifter.... If it stays quiet you'll be fine...

Glad you got the issue solved... :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:58 am 
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crash93ssei wrote:
Well, we tried everything suggested in the FSM and then we decided to try and swap out the ICM with Wes' car. We put the ICM in and it fired right up :banana:

Bad news though, there was a tick. Sounded like a lifter tick, and it went away after about five minutes, but It isn't good. This car has NEVER had not one single noise from the engine no matter how long it sat....

SO, I need an ICM now..
I probably sound like an evangelist for loose connectors, but; my 93 has some of the flakiest pin connectors I have ever seen, esp. the ones that run to the PCM, and the ICM/Crank sensor/cam sensor harness. The female pins seem to spread open just enough to cause intermittent ignition issues. Just unplugging and replugging during a component swap has fooled me into thinking I found the bad part, just to have the problem pop again. IF the problem comes back after a new ICM, holler at me and I will share my shade tree method of searching for these loose female ... er ... connectors :banghead:
According to the FSM, the diagnosis for many intermittent problems, is connector and wiring related. Not sure if it is model-wide, but that is a weak spot in my (wife's) 93. But it keeps me off the streets. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:59 pm 
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Thanks for the help guys. I will be awaiting a new ICM from harofreak now. :)

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2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror click here for project thread
2002 Bonneville SE The new kid, $500 worth of SE goodness - pics here
1996 Silverado Z71 - 350 Vortec, 4x4, ext cab short box. - Pic thread
1982 Cutlass Supreme - Mild built 355 SBC 13.77 @ 100 MPH - still has more to go! idle vid

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 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:56 pm 
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Update:

Still not running :sad5:

The ICM I received from harofreak did not fire on cylinders 1 & 4, the front coil. I swapped it out with three other coils and still no fire.

This was the ICM from his parts car that was sitting in the trunk in "unknown" condition from a junkyard, so I just figured it was a bad one.

Well, I swapped the ICM out again and then it fired right up on all six cylinders :???: The only thing I could think was that somehow when I went to swap out the ICM with my parts car, I got them mixed up and accidently slapped the original back on and it didn't work. So, with the now working ICM on, I did an oil change and let the car sit and idle a bit. It ran for about five minutes then died again....

I got ahold of boosty and he sent me the ICM off his '98? Regal GS. The Regal was a running car when he sent me the ICM, and he said the ICM would work on the '93, also I checked online and it looks like ( according the the autozone website ) they have the same part number.

I put that ICM on the '93 and hit the key.... rolls over fine, won't start :???:

I am getting very confused. Good thing I have a spare car, too bad it isn't S/C though.


Not sure where else to look.
I checked the ground buss on the drivers side just in case, it was like new.
All fuses are good
We checked for continuity in the wires between the ICM and crank sensor and all wires were perfect.



Anyone have any other suggestions?

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Check out my detailing page on facebook! --> Next Level Automotive Detailing
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror click here for project thread
2002 Bonneville SE The new kid, $500 worth of SE goodness - pics here
1996 Silverado Z71 - 350 Vortec, 4x4, ext cab short box. - Pic thread
1982 Cutlass Supreme - Mild built 355 SBC 13.77 @ 100 MPH - still has more to go! idle vid

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:11 pm 
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Have you swaped out the PCM?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:15 pm 
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Yup, swapped the PCM also.

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Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror click here for project thread
2002 Bonneville SE The new kid, $500 worth of SE goodness - pics here
1996 Silverado Z71 - 350 Vortec, 4x4, ext cab short box. - Pic thread
1982 Cutlass Supreme - Mild built 355 SBC 13.77 @ 100 MPH - still has more to go! idle vid

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:20 pm 
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*dang*... What is it with the 93's lately... Not sure what to tell you at the moment Ryan..


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Yeah, probably going to have to wait for the weekend and I am going to do some digging. I will swap each ICM out several times and see if I get repeatable results with any of them.

Other then that, I am pretty much lost :ack:

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2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror click here for project thread
2002 Bonneville SE The new kid, $500 worth of SE goodness - pics here
1996 Silverado Z71 - 350 Vortec, 4x4, ext cab short box. - Pic thread
1982 Cutlass Supreme - Mild built 355 SBC 13.77 @ 100 MPH - still has more to go! idle vid

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Are you getting spark on any of the coils with Boosty's ICM?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Nope, no spark on any coils.

I think I have a wire problem though...


I checked the connector with a paperclip for loose connections, all were tight.


I just got done swapping the ICMs a bunch of time and this is what I got...

Boostys - no spark
haros - no spark
boostys - no spark
original - no spark
parts car - fired engine for a sec, then no spark
boostys - no spark
haros - fires on four cylinders, as it originally did when I got it
goostys - no spark
parts car - no spark
original - runs fine, and is outside running right now


:bluetwitch: :bluetwitch: :bluetwitch:


Looks like I will be tracing wires for continuity from the ICM to the PCM and where ever else they go :roll:







EDIT

OK, not running anymore... stalled out and no spark. Ran for about 10 minutes

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2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror click here for project thread
2002 Bonneville SE The new kid, $500 worth of SE goodness - pics here
1996 Silverado Z71 - 350 Vortec, 4x4, ext cab short box. - Pic thread
1982 Cutlass Supreme - Mild built 355 SBC 13.77 @ 100 MPH - still has more to go! idle vid

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:09 pm 
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crash93ssei wrote:
Yeah, probably going to have to wait for the weekend and I am going to do some digging. I will swap each ICM out several times and see if I get repeatable results with any of them.

Other then that, I am pretty much lost :ack:
Sounds like a repeat of my night mare. If you have it running, you might try wiggling the harness at the ICM and PCM plugs to see if any of them make it die. (OOPS.. just saw your last post) Also, I think yours may have the PCM reference ground on one of the two studs the the ICM base mounts to. On my non-sc, the front stud has the battery ground and the rear one is for the PCM. Because of the way the double nuts work, it is prone to getting a few degrees loose. When I swapped out the ICM-Crank-Cam Sensor harness, I found a loose pin on the one going to the cam sensor. So that harness is something to think about replacing.

Don't know if it's any help, but the circuit below is for Crank/Cam Sensor errors. I know you don't have Check Engine, but may help in troubleshooting. I think you said you've been in the FSM, so this may be for naught.
My experience: I found that (with the loose connector pin at ICM), I could be easily fooled into thinking the ICM I had just swapped was the fix, only for it to show up again later... a symptom of flaky wiring or connectors. (I'm up to 3 cents)
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Last edited by 93RedSled-SSE on Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Next time it's not sparking try unplugging the cam sensor.

IIRC 93 was the last year that the ICM grounded through the mounting bracket. Try removing the ICM & mounting plate from the mounting bracket. Clean any corrosion from the top of the bracket, both sides of the mounting plate & bottom of the ICM. Apply a thin coat of dielectric grease to all four surfaces & reassembly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:16 pm 
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Also check to see if there is still 12 volts on the pink wire on the connector.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:14 pm 
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thats so weird. when we used my icm, it fired right up.

so, it was running with the original for about 10 minutes, then just cut off?

I know we checked the wires from the cps to the icm, what about continuity between the icm, and pcm?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:32 am 
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well, I got home this morning and said what the heck.. I hit the key and it fired right up on the same ICM that it died on last night :???:

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2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror click here for project thread
2002 Bonneville SE The new kid, $500 worth of SE goodness - pics here
1996 Silverado Z71 - 350 Vortec, 4x4, ext cab short box. - Pic thread
1982 Cutlass Supreme - Mild built 355 SBC 13.77 @ 100 MPH - still has more to go! idle vid

MattStrike wrote:
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