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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:50 am 
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Location: Missouri
Year and Trim: 95 SSEi
05 GXP
The 95 wouldn't start yesterday. First time I can remember in 15 years. :angry7:

This sucks.

It's cranking.
I have fuel pressure. I have injector pulse.
I have no spark from the coils.
I'm assuming the next place is ICM or Crank sensor.
I can't scan this car. (see me other posts for that issue).

Is there simple backyard mechanic ways to diagnose the ICM or Crank sensor
without just buying new ones and throwing parts at this car?

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Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles
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Last edited by skregal on Sun May 09, 2010 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:13 am 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
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95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
Check all the fuses. Primarily the ones above the RF hush panel attached to the lower part of the A-pillar on that side. I don't recall which one it is, but there's a fuse in there that supplies power to the ICM.

On the ICM itself (I don't have a manual handy here at work) is it the pink or orange wire that should have 12V to it with the ignition on? Can someone look that up?

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:54 am 
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Fuse should be #6 in the relay center but check them all.
It is the pink wire, terminal P on the ICM wiring harness.

If the fuse is blown & it keeps blowing new ones then try it with the ICM unplugged. If it still blows try unplugging the oil pressure sender.

You would need an oscilloscope to check the crank sensor.

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Last edited by Mechanical Mike on Thu May 06, 2010 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:51 am
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Location: Missouri
Year and Trim: 95 SSEi
05 GXP
Right. Fuse #6 in RH block links pink wire. Fuse is good. All fuses good.
Tested pink wire on ICM terminal P with ignition in RUN position.

Volts pulsate.
13 volts, 7 volts, 13 volts, 7 volts, 7 volts, 13 volts, 1 volt, 1 volt, 13 volts, etc.

The pulsating could be how the multimeter displays it, but it seems like it is
in perfect timing. I don't know what this means.
Does the oil pressure sender effect this in any manner?

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Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles
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"You can have one in any color as long as it's black" - H. Ford


Last edited by skregal on Thu May 06, 2010 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:04 pm 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
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95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
Run a temporary wire from the positive battery terminal and stuff it (twisted end) into the cavity for the pink wire on the ICM harness. Try to start the car.

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PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:51 am
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Location: Missouri
Year and Trim: 95 SSEi
05 GXP
Sorry, the temp wire didn't get me any spark.
I started messing with multimeter, it was acting up.
Fresh batteries and reset.
Pink wire terminal P has 11.86 volts constant when key is in RUN position.
So ICM had/has juice.

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Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles
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"You can have one in any color as long as it's black" - H. Ford


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Pull all the spark plug wires off the coils & watch for spark between the towers as someone cranks it over. If you don't have any spark then you have to try replacing either the crank sensor or ICM.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:18 pm 
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Is there any way to rule ONE of them out, short of throwing the dice.

I think parts stores can test the ICM. Is that right? Can they REALLY test it?

Crank sensor or ICM. Hmmmm

Which one fails most often?
No wait!
Which one is easier to replace?
No wait!
Which one is cheapest?
No wait! :banghead:

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Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles
Image

"You can have one in any color as long as it's black" - H. Ford


Last edited by skregal on Thu May 06, 2010 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:23 pm 
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Year and Trim: 1999 Buick Regal GS
Autozone tested my ICM, no problem there.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:37 pm 
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If it is found to be a bad ICM I have an extra one let me know. Even have extra set of coils too :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Year and Trim: 95 SSEi
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I will have it tested over the weekend.
Thanks for the help.
I will dig up this thread when I get the results.

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Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles
Image

"You can have one in any color as long as it's black" - H. Ford


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:17 am 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
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93 SSEi
95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
I've seen more bad ICM's test good and good ones test bad. Parts stores testers are too basic and generic to properly test all the types of ICM's out there. Never bet on the test results, it's a crap shoot.

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Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:48 am 
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willwren wrote:
I've seen more bad ICM's test good and good ones test bad. Parts stores testers are too basic and generic to properly test all the types of ICM's out there. Never bet on the test results, it's a crap shoot.


:laughing3:
Will is always the bearer of good news, God love ya :P

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Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles
Image

"You can have one in any color as long as it's black" - H. Ford


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:29 am 
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Does your car have a tachometer? If the tack reads RPM when you crank the engine, that would be a very good indication that your crank sensor is working.


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:50 am 
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Just out of curiosity, what were your methods to check for spark and fuel?


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:34 am 
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Location: Missouri
Year and Trim: 95 SSEi
05 GXP
I have a fuel pressure tester. 41 lbs with key on.
I used a multimeter to check for injector pulse, but I only
tested two of them in front.

When I was testing for spark from the coils I could smell gas
as my son was cranking the engine, but there was no sparking.

The tach does not move when cranking except for a slight wiggle
when the starter engages (because of the draw, I persume).

I guess I should start with the crank sensor. It's only about $30
but it looks like a PITA to replace.

_________________
Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles
Image

"You can have one in any color as long as it's black" - H. Ford


Last edited by skregal on Fri May 07, 2010 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:21 am 
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The harmonic balancer has to come off to get to the sensor. It can be a little bit of a pain getting the bolt broke loose. You will also need a puller kit for it and make sure you get the right bolts. Many people have tried using the bolts that come with the puller and end up damaging the threads.


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:26 am 
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I think the bolts are 1/4 28, or 1/4 fine thread. They need to be about 3 inches long to reach into the balancer and preferably grade 5 or 8.


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:01 pm 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
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95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
They are M6x1, and 1/4-28 will strip the threads in the balancer, 1/4-20 is even worse.

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Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers


Last edited by willwren on Fri May 07, 2010 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:45 pm 
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Location: Missouri
Year and Trim: 95 SSEi
05 GXP
You know, this car has had 3 things break on it in the past 2 months.
Pwr steer pump, ball joint, and now this.

I've spent about $300 and 16 hours screwing with it.

$300 and 16 hours of labor for 1500 miles of use is not worth it.

The car is in the street now. I don't think I'm f-ing with the
harmonic balancer in the street.

This could be bye-bye Bonnie.

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Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles
Image

"You can have one in any color as long as it's black" - H. Ford


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